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Dyscalculia and Languages? :/
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| justfoundout |
Posted on September 14 2008 04:07 PM
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Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6101
Joined: 2008-05-25
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9/14/08
Dear Laura,
I see that you made your teachers work for their pay! The example that you used of the different meanings of the word "bat" was a perfect illustration of why computers will never completely replace a good human translator. Computers make those kinds of mistakes frequently, and often with hilarious results -- or disastrous -- as the case may be. :-)
Dear Niqi,
Yes, I rephrase frequently, too,... avoiding 'painting myself into a corner'. But what I wrote about 'scenarios' was referring (I see now) more to the time period when I am just beginning to learn a new language,... when I don't even have enough vocabulary to "rephrase" with.
You've brought up another point (at the end of your paragraph) that reminds me of something that happened to me many years ago. It's something that isn't very 'noticeable' for persons who are only "bilingual" but not "multilingual".
Here's what happened to me, in my case:
I lived in South America, and I spoke my native English and my acquired Spanish. Korean families moved to my neighborhood. I learned basic Korean. My Korean friends (with whom I had spoken mostly Spanish for 4 years) moved to California. I visited my Korean friends in California. My Korean friends spoke very little English.
Now the fun begins. We all went out to eat,... me, my Korean friends, and their Korean friends in California (who I was just now meeting). At the big round table, the conversation is mostly in Korean, but (being polite) the new Korean friends from California would ask me questions about myself and my plans in English. I would answer in English, but I would notice that my old Korean friends looked like they didn't understand. Then I would repeat myself, this time in Spanish, so my old Korean friends could understand. But, of course, their old Korean friends couldn't understand us in Spanish. Then my old Korean friends and their old Korean friends would re-hash the information in Korean, at which time, I could barely understand. After this happened a couple of times, I learned to just smile and eat, because there was entirely too much translation going on.  - justfoundout
Edited by justfoundout on September 14 2008 04:09 PM |
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| Dulcy |
Posted on September 15 2008 04:32 AM
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Member
Location: American Southeast
Posts: 202
Joined: 2008-08-27
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I can remember words just fine, I just have trouble with grammar in foreign languages. I can't remember the rules on when to use what form. I mean, I can remember what words means what, I just have a lot of trouble stringing them together properly.
I can speak enough Italian to get around in Rome, but I'm probably butchering it. I mean, if I say something that to a native probably sounds like "Please, I like bus ticket for Vatican City, to buy." They know what I'm saying, but probably laughing their butts off when I leave. 
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?"
The Summer Day by Mary Oliver |
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| TheatreLvr08 |
Posted on September 15 2008 01:04 PM
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Member
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 171
Joined: 2006-09-08
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*sigh* Well, unlike most of you guys, I am AWFUL at lanuages besides English. It's quite sad because I LOVE learning new languages, but they just don't stay in my head.
~Rachel~
I love to act, sing, and dance. |
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| niqi |
Posted on September 15 2008 01:45 PM
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Member
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 10
Joined: 2008-09-12
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Dear Dulcy,
I had to laugh but don't we all make such mistakes in the beginning of learnig a language? For exemple I wanted to point out a cat and used the other not so fine word that sounds like a cat. Everyone around me we laughing very loud and I realised immidiatly what had happend and turned very red. I lived in Italia for a year and as you know most italian only speak italan and when I was there I would forget words of my own language which is dutch.
Dear Theatrevr08,
that is too bad but I am sure you are good in other things. Try going on vacation to countries that don't speak english you can pick up a language much easier than. |
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| niqi |
Posted on September 15 2008 01:49 PM
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Member
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 10
Joined: 2008-09-12
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dear justfoundout,
When I don't have enough words to make sentices with I use my whole body to explain something. I just demonstrate what I mean. I am always understood it just takes a little bit more time |
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| justfoundout |
Posted on September 15 2008 03:56 PM
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Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6101
Joined: 2008-05-25
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9/15/08
Dear Niqi,
Yes, I do too! And another thing I do is make maximum use of pauses and phrasing when I've run out of grammar. I once told the 'story of my life' in (deficient) Korean to a young woman, and afterwards she turned to my other Korean friends and told them, "I understood everything she said". But I 'got the job done' through judicious use of pauses, emphasis, and facial/body language. Too bad I can't claim to be a 'savant' at this and make some money on it! We could teach the course together. What would we name it?
- justfoundout
P.S. Perhaps more importantly, who would pay to attend? |
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| twistedxkiss |
Posted on September 25 2008 02:27 AM
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Member
Location: Michigan
Posts: 555
Joined: 2008-09-19
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I am trying to learn Spanish, as foreign language is a general ed requirement at my college, and I suck at it completely. |
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| justfoundout |
Posted on September 25 2008 02:09 PM
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Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6101
Joined: 2008-05-25
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9/25/08
Dear TwistedxKiss,
The best CD's that I've found are the Pimsleur language courses. If you are already enrolled in the college Spanish course, I realize that it may be all you can do right now just to keep up with the material that is being covered in class. But when you are able, either check out the Pimsleur Spanish CD's at your public library or buy them. They are audio only, so you can listen to them while you are driving your car, or on headphones while you are riding in other transportation. No book is needed. You'll get the rhythm of the language just listening. The other language courses that I've tried weren't adequate. They were too repetitious and didn't give enough variety to get an idea of how the language was 'wired'. To be fair, I should say that I learned my Spanish living in South America and not from the Pimsleur CD's, but I have used them in studying other languages. - justfoundout
Edited by justfoundout on September 25 2008 02:10 PM |
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| ChanceFlagg |
Posted on December 02 2009 11:31 PM
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Member
Location: Canada
Posts: 8
Joined: 2009-12-01
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The easiest way to learn a language is to read in it. That's what I've found. I am in French Immersion, and reading is one of the best tools. If you can read with someone who is fluent, it is even better. Also, try to avoid translating thoughts. (For example, if English is your first language, do not translate English thoughts into French. Your French sounds mediocre and people will automatically know you are an anglophone.)
Also, listening to the music of that language is good. You'd be surprised what you'd pick up just from that.
I have been speaking French ever since I was little, (kindergarten age) and take the majority of my classes in French. (Math, History, Ethics, French classes of course haha.) French is easy to grasp, but the grammar is a pain in the butt. (there are over 16 different ways to conjugate one verb!  )
French can be difficult tho! My boyfriend tried learning it and ended up having to drop it. XP (Kudos on the German, tho. I tried learning it, but I couldnt quite grasp it...  I want to pick it up again, tho.)
Edited by ChanceFlagg on December 02 2009 11:33 PM
.::EnjoyLife::. |
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| dmyze |
Posted on February 05 2010 11:43 PM
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Member
Location: No value
Posts: 15
Joined: 2009-02-19
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I took an american sign language class last summer at the University of Washington. I was doing very well in the class until we got to the numbers section. During tests our deaf teacher would sign 'simple' math problems and we were supposed to write down the answer. It drove me crazy. I tired to talk to the (deaf) teacher but he did not understand what my issue was. I talked to the disability support services and they were not sure how they could help me, when I told them my current grade was 3.6 they said that I was doing well enough that it wasn't that important that they helped me. I did get the 3.6 but I felt like I was robbed a 4.0 because of all his math questions that came up on every test.
But outside of the numbers issues I loved learning ASL. I picked up on it very quickly. |
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| justfoundout |
Posted on February 06 2010 12:09 AM
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Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6101
Joined: 2008-05-25
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2/5/10
Dear dmyze,
Ditto on loving Sign Language, and ditto on having trouble keeping up with the 'numbers'. I interpreted lectures for a group of deaf in South America, but every time there were 'numbers' involved, I'd 'loose' that part of the information. Then, I'd be trying to ask some other 'hearing person' what the 'numbers' had been. After a while, I started thinking about wishing I had a large panel, where the 'numerical portion' could be typed in by another 'hearing person'. It would be sitting there for me, and for the deaf, when I would get finished saying the other parts of what the speaker had just said. Now, wouldn't that be nice? Back then, I'd never heard of dyscalculia, so it was a mystery to me why I could never remember the numbers.
I'm sorry about your 3.6. That wasn't fair. So sorry. - jus' |
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| Kestrel6 |
Posted on February 06 2010 12:22 AM
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Member
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 448
Joined: 2009-08-26
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I took Sign classes too, and drove the instructor crazy because I would mirror him instead of imitating exactly. I don't have trouble signing any given number, but don't ask me to add them in ANY language 
Blessed are the PURR in heart! |
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| RottieWoman |
Posted on February 06 2010 12:32 PM
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Member
Location: No value
Posts: 3037
Joined: 2008-12-31
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I am really enjoying the style and personality of my ASL teacher. I like her better than I did my prof for ASL in college <whose class was actually more PSE and he was hearing; better to be taught by Deaf>She is Strong-Deaf, class voice-off. She is chair of the ASL weekend my area has annually <no, am likely not good enough to go but maybe next year> She really wants folks to be comfortable and says, please say AGAIN, AGAIN if you miss something, really wants it to be fun. We have little role plays we do and at end of each class is a game - she'll take a handshape or sign and we go around room and try to come up with another sign that utilizes that appearance. |
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| RottieWoman |
Posted on February 06 2010 12:34 PM
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Member
Location: No value
Posts: 3037
Joined: 2008-12-31
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yeah, the numbers are very difficult for me and I also have problems w/spatial orientation <even though visual is my stronger learning style> and motor skill; I sent her an email about it. |
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| angkor |
Posted on October 05 2010 04:03 AM
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Member
Location: USA
Posts: 21
Joined: 2005-06-09
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Where my math skills are lacking, my linguistic abilities are ample. The govt agency in which I worked tested me and found me "professionally proficient" in four European and three E. Asian languages. I soak up languages like a sponge. Yet I struggle with simple addition and subtraction. Go figure! |
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| squeakymonster |
Posted on October 12 2010 08:20 PM
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Member
Location: Munising, MI, USA
Posts: 787
Joined: 2010-10-09
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I can speak English just fine, and some American Sign Language, but when I've had to take different language classes for any reason, well... shall we just say I didn't do so well? I took Spanish, and nearly failed. The teacher called me "stupid" to my face in high school. In college, I took Portuguese, and again, nearly failed. It's the spelling, mostly, and understanding what is being said. I don't know if that's normal for a dyscalculic, but it sure seems to be what happens to me EVERY time I try a new language! |
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| RottieWoman |
Posted on October 13 2010 01:22 PM
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Member
Location: No value
Posts: 3037
Joined: 2008-12-31
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squeaky, that was terrible what your teacher said! I'm sorry that happened to you <hugs>. |
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| Pirullinen |
Posted on October 14 2010 01:14 PM
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Member
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 40
Joined: 2010-10-14
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In a strange way it makes me so happy that you guys all have issues with grammar because it means that I no longer have to consider myself grammar-retarded!
I speak English fluently and have never had any problems with that language, until I began my education. Oh my god, those grammar lessons are killing me! I failed my exam last time, and in January I'm gonna do the exam again. At the moment I'm trying to understand the basic concepts of analyzing sentences. The problem is that I fully understand the concept when I'm in class and then when I get home ten minutes later, it's as if I haven't been listening at all - every single little thing is gone, and I'm right back to where I began!
I don't understand why it has to be this way!!
When I'm not in school I write novels with complicated plots and I'm hoping to get one of them published soon. I just think it's incredibly illogical that I can organize and write a book, and yet I can't analyze a basic sentence like 'John gave Lucy the Book'. It just makes me worried that I won't be able to get my degree because of something as ridiculous as a tree diagram! |
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| Nissa |
Posted on October 15 2010 02:48 AM
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Member
Location: United States
Posts: 171
Joined: 2009-11-29
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Grammar is a weakness for me too. When I was an under grad, I took a grammar class, that mostly consisted of diagramming sentences. Actually, I had to take it twice to get the required "C". I understood parts of the class, but with other parts I got that running-into-a-brick-wall feeling that I had in math class. |
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| twistedxkiss |
Posted on October 19 2010 08:57 PM
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Member
Location: Michigan
Posts: 555
Joined: 2008-09-19
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I am about fluent in Spanish, having studied the last few years at my university. It REALLY kicked my butt, the foreign language requirement here was probably a stronger barrier to my graduation than the math requirement was. I was very good at vocabulary acquisition, listening, and reading, but grammar and things that required that I produce proper grammar myself (ie reading and writing) were terrible. I was telling this to one of my Spanish professors once, and she agreed and thought it was very insightful, that the way we teach grammar in foreign language is NOT AT ALL unlike how we teach algebra. You need to memorize formulas, verb conjugation is not at all unlike manipulating algebraic variables-- and like how in algebra when you have two equations on either side of an = sign and you have to make sure you are making the same changes on both sides, there are similar grammatical concepts which must "agree" within sentences and clauses. Grammar is really quite mathematical. It just so happens that many dyscalculics seem to pick it up easily anyway, perhaps all they need is the different context and it makes sense for them, but I did extensive research on the topic of dyscalculia and language in an attempt to prove a connection to my disabilities office so that I could get more support. We are not the only ones that have these kinds of problems, I can tell you that.
Unfortunately, I don't know what to tell you in terms of how to actually fix the problem. Sooner or later Spanish just started to click with me. I think because early Spanish grammar had so focused on formulas and grammar on a sort of piecemeal basis, I overcomplicated it for myself and didn't realize that you don't always need a formula. I had to do a lot of practice with writing in order to learn to speak, and a lot of reading to learn to write. I had to do a lot of extra work outside of class to get it. I also think that early Spanish was taught on a sort of need to know basis... for example the first thing we are taught is that we tell someone our name by saying "me llamo jill," but we are not taught until much later that "me llamo" is a first person singular reflexive conjugation for the verb "llamarse," and it translates literally to "i call myself," because they figure that is just much too complicated for a beginner and it isn't important for you to know that yet. But I couldn't understand concepts until I got the background behind them, the "need to know" approach didn't work for me, so in early Spanish I had to do a lot of self-study to learn all that extra info and it was extremely difficult because it really IS too complicated for a beginner, but I couldn't advance without it. But then in later Spanish classes when we were finally taught it, I already knew it and breezed through. So it was really just paving the way early on that was very difficult.
I guess you just have to figure out what, specifically, are your hang ups and find a way around them. A tutor may be able to help you accomplish that. If you have any universities nearby I am sure they have german students who would be happy to work with you. |
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