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Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (NLD)
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| Alunasa |
Posted on October 17 2007 04:22 PM
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Location: Florida, US
Posts: 75
Joined: 2007-06-25
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I was just recently diagnosed with Dyscalculia and now I'm being told that I also have Non-Verbal Learning Disorder or NLD. The disability services rep at my school said that it isn't usually recognized but they may be recognizing it in the near future and gave me a list of symptoms...
- Has difficulty finding his/her way around -- often lost or tardy
- Has difficulty coping with changes in routine and transitions.
- Has difficulty generalizing previously learned information.
- Has difficulty following multi-step instructions.
- Makes very literal translations.
- Asks too many questions.
- May experience heightened sensory experiences.
- May develop secondary issues with stress and anxiety.
- Imparts the "illusions of competency".
The only one that I don't have is "makes very literal translations" but there is still a lot I don't know about NLD. Is it recognized anywhere? Is there a test for NLD specifically? It didn't come up on my previous test, but it did reveal information processing problems and anxiety.
Links and other info would be greatly appreciated. If I find anything useful about NLD, I'll post it here.
-Alunasa
Edited by Alunasa on October 17 2007 04:23 PM |
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| Toe_Nail |
Posted on October 17 2007 05:26 PM
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It did occur to me that I may aswell have Non-Verbal Learning Disorder.
However, I have recently learned that we can basically divide dysfunctions in three main groups as follows:
Frontal dysfunctions:
Autistic spectrum disorders
AD(H)D
Tourette
...
Verbal dysfunctions:
Dyslexia
Dysphasia
CAPD
...
Non-verbal dysfunctions:
Dyspraxia
Dyscalculia
NLD
...
So dyscalculia is a non verbal LD  and remember that dyscalculia is a specific LD while NLD isn't (?)
It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein |
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| Toe_Nail |
Posted on October 17 2007 05:50 PM
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I found this link which you may find useful: www.nldline.com
It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein |
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| Alunasa |
Posted on October 17 2007 05:55 PM
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Location: Florida, US
Posts: 75
Joined: 2007-06-25
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Thank you for the link... Saw it after posting this. Just noticing that they have listed FOUR aspects not three, but I definately have problems with the Sensory Area too.. (Bright colors bother me, sometimes sounds are too loud, lights too bright and occasionally a smell that should be good makes me feel sick and smells bad.)
That's interesting. Where do the problems with the left side of the body and clumsiness factor in? This is what I found from: "Nonverbal Learning Disorders" http://www.udel.e...mpson.html
"The three broad aspects of development in which NLD presents deviations and abnormalities are (1) motoric, (2) visual-spatial-organizational, and (3) social."
Motoric
"constantly "getting in the way," bumping into other people and objects"
"A child with NLD takes years, not days or weeks to conquer riding a two-wheel bicycle unaided." - I still can't ride a bike
"When attempting to do "jumping-jacks," it is impossible to coordinate the two sides of his body."
"Using scissors can be a difficult to hopeless task, as is holding a pencil correctly."
Visual-Spatial-Organizational
"This child does not form visual images and therefore cannot revisualize something he has seen previously."
"endeavor to "bind" to an adult, through continuous dialog, in order to stabilize her position in a room."
"Experiences are stored in her memory by their verbal labels, not by visual images or by propreoceptive recall."
"Specific problems in arithmetic can result from deficits in visual-spatial reasoning and visual perception."
"will find his way back from a friends house by counting homes which come in between, labeling environmental markers, and/or recounting a sequence of details which he has taken pains to label and commit to verbal memory."
"difficulty remembering the shapes of letters (visual memory) and using the correct sequence of strokes to form letters (visual-sequential memory)."
"Copying accurately from the board or a book are impractical and agonizing"
Social
"likely to become withdrawn in novel social situations and/or to appear 'out of place.'"
"The blunders committed are usually not flagrant in nature, but rather incessant and tenacious; hence the label 'annoying.'" - I apparently interrupt class to ask questions or correct/add to what the teacher is saying.. I didn't realize this until the doctor mentioned it.
"Social competence disabilities are an integral component of the NLD syndrome and this aspect of the impairment may lead to an overdependence upon adults"
"is naively trusting of others (to a fault)"
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So what do you think? I'd appreciate any feedback.
Quotations are © l996 by Sue Thompson, M.A., C.E.T.
From: http://www.udel.e...mpson.html
Edited by Alunasa on October 17 2007 06:04 PM |
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| eoffg |
Posted on October 18 2007 12:35 PM
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Location: Australia
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Hi  ,
I must express a concern with what I consider to be mis-information.
As I have an interest in the Autistic Spectrum and Non-Verbal Learning Disorder.
Where the crucial identifier, is Non-Verbal difficulties.
What this actually refers to, is 'Inference'.
As opposed to 'Literal interpretation'.
Where NLD people, interpret everything literally.
So that they don't pick up the inference?
For example, in English, I might take the statement:
'Your so smart!'
Where depending on the intonation and the context of the discussion?
These same words can be spoken as either a compliment or as ridicule?
Where it is the 'intonation and the context of the discussion', that 'infer' what is being expressed.
Though with NLD, the inference is not noticed.
Equally, body language and facial expressions, are not noticed.
This difficulty with Inference, in turn has an effect on comprehension.
Though co-morbid/ associated with NLD, for some people?
Is a difficulty with Spatial thinking.
A characteristic that is shared with Dyscalculia.
So that it is more a case of having a shared characteristic.
Geoff, |
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| Toe_Nail |
Posted on October 18 2007 03:15 PM
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I agree with geoff, there is a little bit of mis-information or something isn't very clear in these symptoms (too general) which can lead to mis-interpretation.
I don't know as much as Geoff does on the subject, but for instance the way I see it; "constantly "getting in the way," bumping into other people and objects" can be in fact directly related to motoric difficulties - But someone who has visual perceptual problems may also bump into things, be clumbsy but not because of true motoric difficulties but rather because of a difficulties to perceive space, dimentions or distances.
Again, another example, someone with visual perceptual difficulties may not notice when someone is smilling or frowning due to an impaired ability to notice details. But it doesn't mean that this person doesn't know what a smile or a frown means and/or is oblivious to other's feelings. While someone who has frontal dysfunctions (frontal executive funtions) can, depending of the nature of the problem, be oblivious to other's feelings -- ADHDers can be impulsive, act first then think after as a result of lacking control of their inhibitions (which is one of the many things that frontal executive funtions are responsible for) -- These are far different from simply failling to notice a smile, in my opinion.
Finally, regarding the social difficulties, pretty much any LD, verbal or non-verbal alike can cause the exact same problems. As of talking too much/interrupting/asking too many questions... the question is (sorry for the pun): Why? Why would someone act like such? Can it be because of language difficulties which impairs comprehension? Yes.
Can it be because of hyperactivity / impulsivity? Yes
And again, can it be because what is being said/explained requires visualisation / visual-spatial skills tounderstand and that because of visual perceptual difficulties the person needs to ask for clarifications? Yes
... the list can go on. So which is which? What is what? Why?... I believe that these questions are more important than the symptoms.
---
Alunasa, you mention elsewhere in the forum that you were found to have a visual perceptual problem along with dyscalculia... Well, search no more - I have visual perceptual difficulties aswell myself and I do find that it explains a lot about my dyscalculia and many other things aswell -- What you need todo is try to understand better the nature of your visual perceptual difficulties. There are different kinds of visual perceptual difficulties. Which kind do you have? How does it manifests to you? How does it affect you?... etc - I believe that if you find the answer to these questions first, that you'll find the answer to many other things aswell.
Have a look at: Info Visual Processing/Oculr Dyspraxia/Scotpic Sensitivity - You'll find information and related links to articles which youmay find interesting
One last thing: Bright lights and certain colors bother me too but there are things that you can do to help reduce these symptoms and make reading easiyer - I wrote quite a bit about that in the forum a few months past. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask
Edited by Toe_Nail on October 18 2007 03:16 PM
It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer -- Albert Einstein |
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| Alunasa |
Posted on October 19 2007 05:36 AM
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Location: Florida, US
Posts: 75
Joined: 2007-06-25
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Ok, thanks
Can you explain the part that is mis-information? I'll take it down if it's wrong, but it came from a site that was written by a woman who studies NLD and a sheet from my college on NLD. |
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| eoffg |
Posted on October 19 2007 06:37 AM
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Location: Australia
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Hi Alunasa,
You wrote: "The only one that I don't have is "makes very literal translations"...'
Yet that is the main characteristic of ASD, and what Non-Verbal difficulties actually refer to.
So that any information sheet, should be headed with that, and followed with a comprehensive explanation.
The problem with the other difficulties in the list, is that many other Disabilities also have many of those same difficulties.
So that it could create confusion?
Where I would suggest that your being told that you also have NLD, is an example?
Geoff, |
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| Kathy |
Posted on October 20 2007 01:23 AM
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Location: Bribie Island Queensland Australia
Posts: 407
Joined: 2005-04-03
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Hi Alunasa,
Very interesting, I also read the link and I agree with Geoff many other Disabilities also have many of those same difficulties.
OK now for something I would like an idea on -You mentioned being affected by bright lights . Well "Thunder storms" really frighten me!! - its the flash and then the bang!- Lately as I mature gracefully - (OK stop chuckling everyone) - but yes as I get older - it is getting much worse! I have been told to have hypnotherapy - but I am a little loath to give control of my brain to someone else! - (not very comfortable with that) is there any way I can stop the reaction? it is almost instant - as soon as I see the flash my hands go over my ears and I duck for cover. I can't tell you how many times when I have been serving behind a Library counter and then this happens, sometimes the poor person I am serving looks around as he did not see me duck down under the counter - usually I resurface with the comment -" just getting my pen "(pathetic I know) I would dearly like to get a handle on this as it worries me. As I never know how the fear will grab me. Once I was outside with my daughter and the crack of lightening went - I grabbed her by the hand (poor kid had no chance with the vice like grip I had on her) and ran for the house with her in tow. Now my daughter is 16 and not afraid of storms at all, while she was laughing at her poor funny mum, I know as an adult there has to be a better way of handling this!! (P.S. I have tried putting things in my ears to stop the "bang" but its the "flash" that does it - hands up over my ears, not to mention many a dropped coffee cup!. Same things happen when fire works go off -(hate em with a vengence!) and no I can't sit outside to watch them.  Maybe I should wear sunnies in a storm? - what do you think block out the flash?
Cheers
Albert Einstein said: "Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count!." |
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| London |
Posted on January 05 2009 01:31 AM
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Hi. I was diagnosed with dyscalculia and NLD years ago, although the NLD was never really explained to me properly. I am very jumpy with noises that do not seem to shock people around me, could this be to do with the heightened senses? I find it difficult to read people's faces, however I am constantly being told/teased about my very expressive facial expressions, apparently it is very obvious how i feel/what i'm thinking. Has anyone else found this? thanks. |
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| justfoundout |
Posted on January 05 2009 03:17 AM
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Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6136
Joined: 2008-05-25
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1/4/09
Dear London,
My mother used to punish me for the 'look on my face', and this was when I was trying not to have any look on my face. Will that do? - jus' |
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| RottieWoman |
Posted on January 05 2009 04:32 AM
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Location: No value
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In the last year I have been wondering if my husband has NLD. He "fits" the list at the very top posted by Alunasa almost perfectly. He doesn't tend to be late because he gives himself plenty of extra time to be lost, but he has no sense of direction and cannot find anything without a map - very great with maps <helps me> - but he can have gone somewhere a million times and still make a wrong turn coming out upon leaving and get all confused. I do tend to have a sense of direction so we end up complimenting each other. He has moderate bilateral hearing loss but a very heightened sense of smell and is very sensitive to "bitter" and is extremely literal and misses social cues.
I will check out the link, Toe.
Yes, I think the questions are very important, too. |
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| Lostinspatial |
Posted on April 18 2009 12:05 AM
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London wrote:
Hi. I was diagnosed with dyscalculia and NLD years ago, although the NLD was never really explained to me properly. I am very jumpy with noises that do not seem to shock people around me, could this be to do with the heightened senses? I find it difficult to read people's faces, however I am constantly being told/teased about my very expressive facial expressions, apparently it is very obvious how i feel/what i'm thinking. Has anyone else found this? thanks.
I'm sensitive to noise too, This is just a guess, but maybe the visual-spatial issues require us to pay more attention to the verbal cues. Since a lot of that comes from speech/sound, we're hyperfocused on sounds. Which means were more sensitive to the ones that aren't helping us. On my way to the bus stop, I passed a train shop which has a bell going off, the alarm on a store across the street went off and a car started honking. That was my idea of hell. I don't like loud bars/clubs, because not being able to sort out the conversation from the noise makes it hard to communicate.
Bright colors don't bother me, but if the light's too bright that can. When I'm overwhelmed by things, sitting in quiet or with some of my favorite music on low & some candles is my favorite thing to do. Though with my klutzy tendencies, I stick to the LED ones so I don't burn the place down.
And I do the facial expression thing too. One former boss teased me that I should never play poker, but with all the numbers, etc, I can't follow card games at all, so it's not an issue.
Casinos are pretty much a nightmare. Too much sound, too bright light and lots of numbers and steps to follow |
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| ashlie |
Posted on November 22 2009 08:34 AM
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I actually went to get tested for dyscalculia originally.
I ended up getting diagnosed with Non Verbal Learning Disorder. At first I was sort of offended, because the symptoms online make it sound like it is Aspergers Lite, but for me that actually turned out to not be the case: I would have dyscalculia, except I'm only disabled in the visual-spatial and math arena, and my scores were high enough on one math portion not to render a comparable on verbal and non verbal. It makes sense given my skills verbally, and my bouts of clumsiness as well as history of anxiety and trauma. You could pretty much specify me as a visual spatial dyscalculiac, but I believe the diagnosis of NLD, in my case at least, was because I have a learning disorder, but it wasn't a specific one since I have a cluster of symptoms.
I'm just glad to know I'm not stupid..it wasn't fun having teachers and classmates make fun of me because I couldn't do work on the board.  |
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| justfoundout |
Posted on November 22 2009 04:11 PM
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Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6136
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11/22/09
Dear Ashlie,
Would you share what country you are in? And, also, which IQ test you were given? Thanks. - jus' |
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| ashlie |
Posted on November 22 2009 08:46 PM
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justfoundout wrote:
11/22/09
Dear Ashlie,
Would you share what country you are in? And, also, which IQ test you were given? Thanks. - jus'
I'm from the US, in IL to be exact. I was given the Binet and Winchester test. I had to do multiple tests because I showed such a huge disparity, that at first she thought there was something wrong with the test. |
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| ashlie |
Posted on November 22 2009 08:47 PM
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justfoundout wrote:
11/22/09
Dear Ashlie,
Would you share what country you are in? And, also, which IQ test you were given? Thanks. - jus'
I'm from the US, in IL to be exact. I was given the Binet and Winchester test. I had to do multiple tests because I showed such a huge disparity, that at first she thought there was something wrong with the test. |
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| RottieWoman |
Posted on November 24 2009 04:42 AM
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hello and welcome, ashlie!
think I said this but for any newcomers -a lot of what is on that list <Oct 17, '07>, really fits my hubby exceedingly, I really suspect he has NLD. So u are not alone.
while I don't believe I happen to have NLD, I do think I have CAPD as well as the formally dx'd math LD and I remember too, extreme verbal and physical assaults from other students when I didn't perform as expected. I remember those horrific "at the board" moments. My teachers were generally kind but clueless. |
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