So I finally got tested. After 2 long years of wondering and trying to find out how to afford it, and who to get tested by and really needing a reason, I finally got tested.
The result: I'm dyscalculic. I'm functioning right around 6 grade levels below where I really should be, 14th percentile, etc. etc.
Fantastic. I had known that already, but now I know for sure. So I fill out all the necessary forms to get some accommodations from my school, drop off the paperwork last night and think all is good.
Well, its not, as it turns out.
According to the disability services coordinator at my school, none of the testing "suggested I had a disability". And therefore they can't give me accommodations.
I'm not going to lie to you; when I got that email, I cried. I was so sure we were finally going to get somewhere with this.
I sent the lady back an email. A really long one detailing all sorts of things; picking through every piece of my report, showing the diagnostic criteria for mathematics disorder, everything. I got a little frustrated near the end and said something like if I had one of the better known disorders, this wouldn't even be a question. It would be a given that I'd receive the help I need. But since I have dyscalculia, and no one seems to have ever heard of it, I am stuck.
I'm not asking for much. I don't really care if they choose to waive my math courses; I think I can scrape by with some accommodations. I want a graphing calculator so I can keep track of my numbers, and I want a tutor who maybe knows a little bit about dyscalculia and I want more test time so I can actually finish my tests without rushing through them and making mistakes. It is Christmastime, she could be a little more giving
I haven't heard back, and I'll let you know what she says when I do, I just wanted to vent some frustration at the ignorance that seems to surround us.
Location: Southeastern U.S. Posts: 322 Joined: 2008-11-10
Congrats on the diagnosis, but I'm sorry the school is being so obstinate. I'm sure someone here has some ideas for you on how to educate the educators. Don't give up. Since you have proof that you have a legitimate LD, I'd bet if you start bringing in ld regulations that they'll listen much more quickly.
Parent of math impaired 14 year old daughter.
"...they think a lot of my issues are caused by math anxiety (but my anxiety would be caused by dyscalulia, now wouldn't it?)" - AnimalHugger
Great to hear you finally got diagnosed. Not happy that you have dyscalculia of course, but you know what I mean. Now you KNOW.
I can't remember, where in the world do you live? Depending on that, you have rights. In the states there's the Americans with Disabilities Act, and in WHO countries you have the diagnosis manual and WHO on your side (listing in the navigation, "what is dyscalculia" ) . Basically just means that you have the opportunity to say you're gonna file a lawsuit if they don't help you. THIS IS THE FINAL OPTION, though, because if you start "threats" like that, you're never getting them to help you because they WANT to.
Have you given her direct information about the official listings? They're on that "what is dyscalculia" page too.
Also, if you can't talk sense into her, demand a meeting with more people than her, and possibly the one who tested you.
Edited by ert on December 18 2008 12:09 AM
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
12/17/08
Dear Classclownfish,
Unbelievable! So forgive me now for 'picking' back through what you've written. I'm mostly just trying to understand how this could have happened to you, but also, of course, I'd love to be able to make some great suggestion of something that would actually solve the problem. Oh, but not first without saying how sorry I am for all the distress that that lady has caused you. You sure didn't deserve that.
So, you got tested and the result was that you were diagnosed as dyscalculic? Am I right so far? Was it an IQ test like maybe Wechsler or the Binet Stanford? And was it administered by a licensed psychologist? And did the psychologist's 'report' say that you had a Math Learning Disability (or how did it word this part)? When the school's disability coordinator said that it didn't 'suggest that you had a disability' was she referring to the scores themselves or was she referring to the 'report' written by the psychologist? I've found out recently that the community colleges here in Texas only need a 15 point descrepancy to call something a 'disability', whereas the DARS agency needs a 20 point descrepancy to call something a disability. Can you pin her down on what she needs (that you supposedly don't have) in order to 'see' a disability?
Who is her superior? If you don't get a really nice email back from her soon, I'd suggest that you write to her superior. - jus'
I got tested using three subsets of the Woodcock Johnson Achievement Test. I had an IQ test when I was in 1st grade, so I already had that knowledge. The psychologist was licensed, and the report detailed the significant discrepancy between my IQ level and my math skills; he did not explicitly say that's what it was, but he did say I needed accommodations.
The coordinator said that since my scores were "low average", that generally does not constitute a learning disorder. The psychologist did note in the report that there was a 30-point discrepancy between my IQ and math skills. I went through the criteria and made notes about each part and how I had fulfilled those criteria.
I don't believe she has a superior. She does seem to be the "head honcho" of the whole department. Our college's president is very nice though, I've thought about bringing the matter up to him.
I refuse to swear on this board, but I certainly did out loud. I would have rudely pointed out that she is NOT a professional psychologist and if she chose to argue his diagnosis then to get on the phone and do so with him and if not, then to take you seriously.
I would insist upon it. No doubt she will refute this with some kind of nonsense. To which I would smile and say "Ah, very well, it seems I'll have to trouble the president with such a trival matter..."
Now this is what gets on my nerves. WHY are accomodative serves NOT accomodative??? Mine are sucking up to me now that I've been to my president. Too late, she should have been doing her job in the first place.
Now seriously, I think she fed you a line of bull for strange reasons. Maybe they already have a large case load and feel the need to fob you off? Eitherway, please push and push until they give you what you need and deserve.
Wow, I need to calm down...this just isn't right, folks.
Location: United States Posts: 191 Joined: 2008-05-24
I'm so sorry classclownfish. I feel so badly for you. You will be in my thoughts and prayers, although I unfortunately have no advice for you, since I am in the same situation. I'm waiting for the results of my tests from the phycologist to be mailed, and I'm sincerely hoping they don't pull the same idioticy on me. However, they seem to think that most of my issues are from math anxiety...It's a long story.
But either way, I really hope that you can find a way to get the help/diagnosis that you need. All the advice you have recieved so far sounds great - and definately do not give up.
I'm NOT stupid!!!!!
Update: I had a meeting earlier today with the lady in person. She was definitely not one of the most supportive or understanding people I have ever met, to say the very least.
Here's what I learned:
My school does NOT use the discrepancy model for disabilities. So even though I have this really high IQ and exist in the 7th grade/15th percentile level of math, I still don't have a "disability" according to my school. Evidently I have to be in the 0th percentile or something to even qualify for accommodations, no matter if there is a 30-point discrepancy between where I SHOULD be and where I AM.
The lady said that I should get a more thorough test, to check my IQ now that I'm older. I asked her, if the school doesn't even use the discrepancy model, would that matter. "Oh, just to make sure you're not developmentally challenged", according to her. I told her, clearly I'm not, since I am in the undergrad program at a fairly challenging school. But she just blew me off and kept treating me like I was slow or something. That really made me mad. I know I am a smart kid, just got some problems and she was treating me like I was especially thick or something.
Then she said, even if I did qualify, they couldn't really do anything to help me. I could have a simple 4-function calculator. I told her that wouldn't really do much good since I can't keep numbers in my head and that is specifically why I requested the use of a graphing calculator. She told me I could just write down the numbers to keep them in my head. Well guess what, I do, and big surprise about half the time I get them mixed up somewhere between my brain and pencil. She just acted like that wasn't her problem, said that's "not something she can do anything about".
I asked her if she had any other students that had a math LD. She said "Yes, we have over 200 students with reading, writing and math LD's". What about math specifically? "We have over 200 students with reading, writing and math LD's". So my question never really got answered. I have the feeling that she has never had to work with a kid with a math LD, or just treated them like she was treating me. I told her it was my suspicion that most people hadn't even heard of dyscalculia and she was just really rude and said "Well your assumption is wrong."
I told her she wasn't being very accommodating, and she said that she only had to follow what was in the law. Something about them not having to be supportive, just within the law.
I asked her if there was someone else I could talk to and she said that she was the head of the department but I could appeal her decision but it would be thrown out because my documentation isn't sufficient. I told her over and over again that there wasn't any reason why I needed to have more testing because the results were pretty obvious and more testing would cost money that I don't have. She said that wasn't her problem, and I said "Well I guess if I had rich parents who could pay for testing, I wouldn't have any problems getting help academically".
I cried during that whole meeting, and for two hours afterward. I've never met a person that can make me feel that completely and utterly hopeless. I cannot believe they let someone like her even coordinate a department like that that clearly needs a department head with some compassion and empathy towards the students they are supposed to be serving.
I don't think she's going to want to meet with me again anytime soon. I certainly don't want to meet with her. The last thing she said before I left is "We can't help you.", and I said "I'm dyscalculic, I should be used to it by now." and left.
So that's about where that is. Guess I fell through the cracks again. Now I really don't know what to do. I'm really discouraged. And my school is supposed to be one of the more "LD-friendly" colleges out there. Haha, if only I had one of those fancy well-known ones. Then maybe I'd get some support.
PS. Sorry its so long, just started typing like crazy. I'm really wound up emotionally right now, as you can probably tell.
Edited by classclownfish on December 20 2008 05:40 AM
classclownfish, we all understand your situation and most of us have been there in some way or other. Just letting you know. It's perfectly normal to feel what you feel. You don't have to say sorry for writing long posts.... We love long posts here
You should get a new IQ test. They change. Especially during childhood and teenage years. I know it costs money and you don't have them, but it's pretty essential. If you want to take this further, that is.
She says they only have to follow the law - but they're not! They're not helping you. She can't claim that.
She wouldn't tell you about other students, I don't know why - but hey, what about posting flyers at camp? Make a flyer with a BIG HEADLINE saying "Ever joked about having MATH DYSLEXIA?" or "Do you have MATH DYSLEXIA", and write a little about it. You can steal all the information from this site, that's allowed. Also, add that you are looking for other people like you. Add your name or email. Plaster it all over the place. All over. And then wait to see if someone reacts. It helps so much having someone with the same problems around, in real life.
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
12/20/08
Dear Classclownfish,
When I responded to your first posting on this Thread, I was just trying to understand the parameters of your predicament. But now, I find myself writing to you for your help with my own situation. I'm scheduled to take the Woodcock Johnson III day after tomorrow (Monday, December 22, 2008). My DARS Counselor was only trying to get me re-tested on 3 subsets of the Woodcock Johnson III, but this was going to be done at the UT Southwestern Medical University. Since they didn't 'come through' with an offer to test me, he's re-scheduled me with a different psychologist. I've got a list from another person on this forum of the best of those subtests, and I plan to ask for these. But just in case you are able, could you tell me which of those subsets you took? You could send it as a PM, if you'd rather. I'm suspecting that the right subsets may not always be given to us, as dyscalculia isn't the 'normal' LD that most psychologists test for. So maybe, they don't give it much forethought when they schedule us, and then later, when they see that they don't have what they need to diagnose a math LD, it would be embarrassing for them to admit this. My psychologist for this Monday is top-notch, so there would be nothing I'd like better than just 'leave it all to him', but I've had such a hard time getting the payment covered by a gov agency, I just don't want anything else to go wrong.
I think that you might be able, online, to do research about WHO the people are who give the rude lady her job and her power. Those would be the people to contact next. Also, if you plan to spread your email contact information everywhere, may I suggest that you open a NEW email account expressly for that purpose, so that you don't get unwanted replies in your original email account. And if you name your email something to do with dyscalculia or math learning disability, you may become a 'campus hero' within days. - jus'
Location: Southeastern U.S. Posts: 322 Joined: 2008-11-10
Honestly, I'd love some input into the Woodcock-Johnson subtests also. At least the ones, as jus' mentioned, that are more pertinent to dyscalculia. My daughter will be retested in January, and I want to make sure that the focus is the dyscalculia.
Thanks!
Parent of math impaired 14 year old daughter.
"...they think a lot of my issues are caused by math anxiety (but my anxiety would be caused by dyscalulia, now wouldn't it?)" - AnimalHugger
Location: American Southeast Posts: 202 Joined: 2008-08-27
I'm not someone who goes running to a lawyer evertime something happens, but in this case, I thiink that's exactly what you should be doing.
Youi do have dyscalculia but you DON'T have a disability? I mean, in the opinion of an ignorant person with a clear agenda, I mean?
Nice.
You can probably talk to a lawyer for free to see if you have a case. If she's saying there are other people with math LDs, then she's probably treating them like she's treating you.
And a lawyer can smell a class action lawsuit like blood in the water.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?"
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
12/20/08
You could look up who your State House Representative is for your zip code is and write him/her a letter. And you could write to the State's disability services organization - whatever state you're in.
I feel everything that you're feeling, Dulcy, but I'll add a word of caution here. (This is because of a personal experience.) If anyone ever signs up with a lawyer on a contingency basis, you really can't 'pull out' of the case unless you have the money to pay the lawyer out of your own pocket for each and every service he has performed for you during the time that he's been working on your case. It's a little like deciding to get onto a bucking bull. You can't get off until the ride is over, and you don't get to decide when the ride is over. - jus'
1) Contact the presidents office and make an appointment to see him. She may be head of the damn office, but she's not head of the school.
2) Write down the times and dates that you have met with this so called accom. officer and exactly what she has said.
3) Take a look at my proposal on the Education board, and feel free to use it or write something similar.
4) Take your proposal to the president and explain what has been said. Do not be afraid to say you are most disappointed by the lack of support from accom. services. My President was understanding and appologetic, yours might be too.
Please remember this:
This is YOUR education which YOU are paying for. These morons are working for YOU and have no right to treat you with such disregard.
Go back to your accom. officer and tell her that you'll be seeking the presidents advice on this matter and will return to her with his/her opinion, and enjoy the look on her face. Trust me, if she tells the president that you don't qualify and he feels otherwise, her ego will be the one that looses. Don't for a minute think she'll be believed over you - I assumed that and was horribly wrong, but got excellent results.
He might see the lawsuit waiting to happen, and might accomodate you regardless. Stay strong and have faith.
Location: United States Posts: 191 Joined: 2008-05-24
Classclownfish, I'm so sorry!!!!!! I can't believe that that lady was so snotty with you. I would have been sobbing, too. My heart is breaking for you.
I really don't know what advice to give, like I said before...All I can give is encouragement and sympathy, other than don't give up. You know the truth, and it is only fair that you get your diagnosis. Fight it!
Oh, and I think I took the WAIS test...Obviously, that is different from teh ones you took. But I took another one after that, and I don't know what that one was. I forgot to write it down.
My result haven't come in yet...But I wonder why my tests were different kinds?...
I'm NOT stupid!!!!!
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
12/21/08
Rae, Your ideas are great. I really do think that there are more steps that can be taken before resorting to a lawyer. I mean, if a person had an uncle who's a lawyer, by all means! But lawyers will be charging to look into the laws, the rules, the story of what's happened, and trying to see where you can get 'money' back for your suffering, because where there's 'money' for you, there will be 'money' for him, too. If there's no 'money' in it (for him and for you), he'll be suggesting that you contact your local disability office (disability administration, disability support center, ombudsman, and so on and so forth). His goal, if he takes your case, would probably not be getting your the services that you need, although that could be a 'side effect' of a law suit.
And Rae, something else that you said that was good, and needed to be said, was that part about these services being something that classclownfish is paying for. At my own college, a high ranking cashier reminded me of this saying, "I sure hope that they help you get your degree, because you've paid a lot for it." What made this 'strike home' with me so much was that I'd been on the WIA program, a program for people who couldn't get adquate employment, and they had paid for my classes in the beginning. (Later, I'd gotten on Pell Grant.) And that high level cashier had been in charge of releasing those WIA funds to pay for the classes each semester, so to hear her say that I'd 'paid a lot for it ' put it all into a new perspective for me. She knew that I hadn't paid for the classes myself, yet she also knew that I'd done the 'jumping through hoops' to make it happen, and she saw that as my 'investment'.
And AnimalHugger, I've heard that if you're given one test (like, for example, the Wechsler), you can't be given that same test within the same year. But in your case, they were all given by the same people, weren't they? So, it sounds more like they had planned it that way from the beginning, doesn't it? - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on December 21 2008 08:46 PM
I feel so badly for you. You will be in my thoughts and prayers, although I unfortunately have no advice for you, since I am in the same situation. I'm waiting for the results of my tests from the phycologist to be mailed, and I'm sincerely hoping they don't pull the same idioticy on me. However, they seem to think that most of my issues are from math anxiety...It's a long story. 
