Location: United States Posts: 191 Joined: 2008-05-24
Hey everyone,
Well, I've waited for over a month (when the school said that I should know within a week, but apparently some other 'emergencies' came up and they had to deal with them first - and they didn't even give us a phone call, so I was freaking out for a month!) to get my test results.
And here they are.
Apparently, I don't have dyscalculia.
Apparently, my parents just didn't introduce me to more complicated math programs (a lie) and apparetnly, my low self esteem and total lack of confidence in math is preventing me from learning. (And how did I get that low self esteem, may I ask?...)
Apparently, I should just go back to public school so that I can get away from the pressures of having to dissapoint my parents (never mind that having to learn in front of your peers is ten times more nerve-racking, as I found out in my eight grade year).
But apparently, since I got a C in my 8th grade math class (never mind that I stayed up until past midnight, with my Papa pounding the material into my head, every night, and that I literally couldn't sleep because I was so worried about math and that I failed both my midterm and final) it shows that I can understnd math, it is jsut hard for me.
And apparetnly, since I managed by some miracle to pass the GEPA (the 8th grade standardized test) which, by the way, I consider a miracle because I just don't know how I did it, I can learn math and my anxiety is preventing me (and I have anxiety because?...)
And so that whole thing - the whole time I waited, everything - was worthless.
And they didn't even get all their information right on the sheet!
I feel crushed. Just crushed. And now my Papa is like, "I told you so." This stinks. WHat am I supposed to do? DO you even think I acutally have dyscalculia? Or am I hanging onto something I should forget?
I am sure I have it.....I can't believe this. I'm so upset.
Location: Southeastern U.S. Posts: 322 Joined: 2008-11-10
I just wrote this very lengthy response, and when I posted it, I was asked to log in again and lost it. Grrrrrr.
I'll try again.
I'm so sorry, AnimalHugger. I know you're so very frustrated. I truly wish I could help. My only thinking is really about something that I don't know much about. I don't know if testing in schools is done specifically to see if you have dyscalculia. MF's is going through testing now with an outside neuropsychologist. Based on what she is saying so far, MF's may have non-verbal disorder, or visual-spatial disorder, not specifically dyscalculia. IF schools are testing only for dyscalculia, maybe they're missing other things that can cause the math difficulties. Please, someone, tell me if I'm incorrect in what I'm saying.
My point is that maybe outside testing might be an option. It is expensive, and it sounds as if your parents might not be willing to pay. But maybe it's something to keep in mind.
Please don't give up. My experience with schools so far is that they balk at LD's. They seem to do everything to disprove, not prove that you have one. Keep believing in what you know about yourself. You'll be vindicated at some point. At the minimum, keep coming here for support!
Believe in yourself and your abilities and disabilities!
Edited by monkeyfeathersmom on January 24 2009 07:44 PM
Parent of math impaired 14 year old daughter.
"...they think a lot of my issues are caused by math anxiety (but my anxiety would be caused by dyscalulia, now wouldn't it?)" - AnimalHugger
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6097 Joined: 2008-05-25
1/24/09
Dear MFM,
I had just read and responded to AnimalHugger privately a few minutes before reading her posting on the forum and your response,... you will be amazed, absolutely amazed, at how similar our responses are to the very same information - yet completely without reading what each other was thinking. You 'hit' the same points that I did and had the very same opinions.
I hope that AnimalHugger won't mind that I'm going to send you what I said to her (maybe not all of it) so that you can smile. - Jus'
Edited by justfoundout on January 24 2009 08:17 PM
I too am sorry, AnimalHugger, I can imagine how confusing and frustrating this is! If you got tested within a k-12 program <as in, non-college; forgive me, am not sure what your age range is> by the school or an agency associated with this school, then I'd try to contact outside testing facilities - try through a college, an independent educational psychologist familiar with math LD, or something like what we have in States <your location, unsure> called DVR - Division of Vocational Rehabilitation. Even with all the budget cuts and controversy w/DVR here, they - or an agency like them -may still be able to at least talk to you and direct you.
Location: Southeastern U.S. Posts: 322 Joined: 2008-11-10
Jus' - I'd love to see it! Great minds think alike. lol!
called DVR - Division of Vocational Rehabilitation. Even with all the budget cuts and controversy w/DVR here, they - or an agency like them -may still be able to at least talk to you and direct you.
My daughter's pediatric psychologist told me on our last visit that once you're 18, you can go to one of these agencies and be tested for free. He was suggesting this for MF's to be tested yet again before college. IF you can wait, AnimalHugger, this may be an option for you. It wouldn't hurt, as RottieWoman suggested to give them a call and see what they say.
Parent of math impaired 14 year old daughter.
"...they think a lot of my issues are caused by math anxiety (but my anxiety would be caused by dyscalulia, now wouldn't it?)" - AnimalHugger
My psychologist first tried to tell me I had math anxiety and ADD and that was the cause of my problems, but the tests that they performed proved otherwise. I still had to push him to be honest with what the test results said because he didn't want to diagnose me with a learning disability. If you truly believe you have dyscalculia, you don't have to take this one test as proof otherwise and let it go. If you keep trying you may get a different result.
I wonder if their comment about your parents not introducing you to higher math is a prejudicial comment about homeschoolers in general. I know with your parents it will be hard, but I would get a second opinion. If your parents wont let you, I know it's devastating, but if you can hold out until you're 18 you can do it without them. It will be difficult, but I promise the world wont end. In the meantime you may just have to do the best you can. I'll do whatever I can to help, I'm getting pretty good at math these days.
Location: United States Posts: 191 Joined: 2008-05-24
First of all, thanks, everyone, for your responses and sympathy. I really needed to hear from you.
Now, to answer ALL your posts -
First of all, I'll start with TwistedKiss because something he said really hit the nail on the head. I do think that the fact that I am homeschooled influenced the decision greatly. I believe, unfortunately, that my 'lack' of formal schooling 'allowed' the school system to gyp me. Also, I know many people in this school district, and most of them pressure me to go to public school...And the recommendation suggested that I go to the high school for further instruction. So, long story short, I think that this had A LOT to do with it. As a veteran homeschooler, I can tell when someone sees the word 'homeschooled' and immediately thinks 'dumb.' And that's the way the physcologist looked at me. I don't mean to be rude to schoolteachers or anything like that (I've met some public school teachers who are very gracious and wonderful) but a good amount are very prejudiced against homeschoolers, despite the research that shows that homeschoolers actually routinely top the grades of public schoolers.
The other problem is this: my good track record in the year I went to school is killing me. I am a very driven individual. I like school, I like learning. I wouldn't just stop learning because I was homeschooled again! But the math physcologist, I think, just assumed that my performance wasn't as high because my parents were teaching me again. Which makes no sense, because I was average or above average in everything else. And they apparently think I can understand up to 8th grade math - which is the year I went to school (but I disagree). I think that they assumed an awful lot.
And also, my 8th grade math teacher was vehemently opposed to me being homeschooled again; he thought I would regress. I don't know if they contacted him, but if they did...I hate to think what he told them (I really liked my teacher; but he was one of those who was very prejudiced against homeschoolers).
Now....I don't understand. Why would someone try to disprove someone having a learning disability? I mean, wouldn't that only hurt them, instead of help them?
Monkeyfeathersmom - Thank you so much for the kind words. I appreciate them. I didn't think of that - maybe they did miss something because we mentioned dyscalculia. However, the report didn't make it sound like that. We have to have a meeting, to discuss the results, and I'll make sure to bring this up.
Justfoundout - Thank you for your PM.
Rottiewoman - I'm a junior in high school. As to other testing places - that was my idea in the first place. I didn't want to go through the school; we live in a smallish town, and I was afraid of this happening. But the problem is that we don't have the money to get me tested. The school agreed to test me for free, because they technically have to because I am in their school district. But the prices for getting testing elsewhere are generally too high for us to afford right now. I live in the States, so I'll have to check out the DVR. Thanks for the advice!
The problem with waiting until I'm 18 to get tested is that I'm not sure I can move on in my education without a diagnosis and some official help (extra time on SATs, etc.). You see, this school year is over halfway over, and the next year is supposed to be my last year in high school. I just don't have enough math skills to pass, though. And I don't want to be held back. URG!
Anyway....Sorry for the length of this post. I felt like I had to explain. And again, thank you for your kindness, your advice, your sympathy, and for being there. I'm NOT stupid!!!!!
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6097 Joined: 2008-05-25
1/25/09
Dear AnimalHugger,
I know that you want to get out of school by 18, just like everybody else, but tell me, for how long will the school system have a reponsibility toward you? I mean, there are probably people who re-do their senior year and end up graduating at 19, aren't there? - jus'
Location: United States Posts: 1860 Joined: 2008-11-14
AnimalHugger, I'm so sorry to hear about your negative test result. I remember agonizing for a week after I took my test, afraid the results would come back negative and I wouldn't be able to get help or accommodations. Fortunately that didn't happen, mine came back as a positive diagnosis for dyscalculia, but now you are in the position I was terrified to be in.
I wish I had some kind of advice or tidbit for you about dealing with your situation from this point, but anything I might have come up with has already been said. Just keep your head up - eventually they're going to realize you were right, and you'll be vindicated. Until then, keep being the intelligent, driven young person you are and continue to kick ass in spite of your math problems.
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer
Now see, that just says to me that it has to be related to home schooling. Because I was a freshman in college when I was diagnosed, so I was SUPPOSED to be at about a high school junior math level, because that was when my high school math curriculum ended and I was mid-course in my first college math course. And I am able to do math at a seventh grade level, and that was one of the major deciding factors in my diagnosis, which says to me that this IS a major discrepancy. If they aren't going to attribute it to dyscalc, and they clearly have an issue with homeschooling, what else could their line of thinking be?
justfoundout wrote:
1/25/09
Dear AnimalHugger,
I know that you want to get out of school by 18, just like everybody else, but tell me, for how long will the school system have a reponsibility toward you? I mean, there are probably people who re-do their senior year and end up graduating at 19, aren't there? - jus'
Absolutely. At least in the state of Michigan, you can be in high school until you're 21. After that you have to go to an adult school for a GED, but that may only pertain to the public schooling system, I'm not sure. But I was in high school not all that long ago and there were a fair number of second and third year seniors. There are a number of different factors that can lead to that happening to someone, and not all of them are shameful. In fact, if you think about it, how many learning disabled students manage to finish their bachelors degree in exactly four years? (or non-disabled students, for that matter.) Most of us who are even attempting have had to retake at least one math class at least once. If it takes an extra year or so in high school, I know it's disappointing, but I wish there werent such stigma around it because it's pretty much expected in college that you won't finish a degree in 4 years anymore.
Location: That would require me to know where I was Posts: 429 Joined: 2008-06-08
No offense to psychologists, but my own experience with an educational testing psychologist and reading the experiences of others has shown me just how subjective the field is. I think you're correct that the psychologist had an agenda about home schooling. Also, I think they want to be the gatekeepers, so if you approach them on your own (vs. being referred by a teacher), it's almost as if they view it as a challenge to their authority. I don't know if you made the mistake like I did of mentioning that I'd read up on the topic online. That seemed to make them really skeptical that I had a LD. That and a previous experience with a therapist over some family issues has pretty much turned me off to psychologists/psychiatrists for awhile. I'm hoping to follow up on the visual spatial impairment/ADHD diagnosis with a neurologist, because I don't want to deal with them and their value judgements.
I know in my case, I tested average for math, but the results indicated some sort of visual-spatial impairment (which in turn can affect the way I process/exercise math skills). And my processing speed was a bit slow. In my other classes, I'd usually finish early, double check my test and still have time to daydream before the teacher collected all of the papers. In math, chemistry, geography & physics, I frantically raced against the clock and didn't always finish my tests. So you may have a similar issue.
Edited by Lostinspatial on January 26 2009 09:39 PM
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6097 Joined: 2008-05-25
1/26/09
Dear Lostinspatial,
In my case, I'd told my DARS Counselor that I'd found this forum. That was passed from him to the psychologist who was in charge of my testing. We all want to think that "professionals" behave "professionally", but this isn't always the case. I agree with your statement.
Lostinspatial said:
"... Also, I think they want to be the gatekeepers, so if you approach them on your own (vs. being referred by a teacher), it's almost as if they view it as a challenge to their authority."
It's a cruel twist when something that we are so happy to have discovered about ourselves is maligned as an example of "mal-adaptive behavior" or perhaps a "delusion",... just because the professional didn't think of it first! - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on January 27 2009 05:30 AM
Location: United States Posts: 191 Joined: 2008-05-24
Again, thanks for the replies, everyone! Now, to answer them all:
ChesireKat - Thanks. And I do plan to keep kickin' butt! I can't wait until I acutally get a diagnosis - those physcologists really will look silly then, eh?
Justfoundout - Yes, I can stay in high school an extra year, which is what my Mama wants. I just really, REALLY don't want to have to be held back. Everyone I know is going to be preparing to go off to college, and it will be exquisite torture to know that I can't go, all because I have a Math LD that I really can't admit to people because I don't have a diagnosis (because it will sound like I'm just making an excuse). I mean, I can do that, but I would prefer not to. Not that I'll have a choice, now.
TwistedKiss - Yes, I strongly agree that homeschooling was a deciding factor. And that, as Lostinspatial said, I looked up the subject myself (and wrote a 33 page research paper on it). I was afraid that they would be prejudiced if I mentioned my own research, so I didn't, but my Mama did. So I think both of these things screwed me over. Especially since public schoolers have gotten that much more hostile toward homeschoolers, since studies have shown that homeschoolers are kicking the butts of public school high school students (no offense meant to those mentioned). URG.
And about high school - whether you or I like it or not, there IS stigma if you don't pass HS in four years. And I know I'm smart, and I really don't want to have to deal with all that. But at this point, I don't think there is another way.
Ert - I think they used a WAIS test....I'm doing this from memory, so if those letters don't makes sense, then I'm wrong...I just tried to find the information (I wrote it down) but I of course can't find it right now, but I will give you confirmation as soon as I find it. What tests did diagnosed dyscalculics take?
Lostinspatial - Your post makes an awful lot of sense. And yes, I think the fact that I did research really ticked them off; one lady in particular, actually - head of hte math department. (rolls eyes) Like I said earlier, I wasn't going to say a thing about it, but my Mama did. So...We are where we are now. Thanks for sharing your diagnosis; I think I'll bring that up when we meet with the school. There were definately discrepancies (if you don't count my acutal math performance) between some of my skills; I forget which set, now, but I remember looking at them and thinking, "There has to be something wrong there!" So I do plan to bring that up. And, again, thanks for the advice and thoughts.
Justfoundout - You know, this is so stupid. That physcologists can get away with this sort of thing. It's just wrong! URG!!!!!! We should all become physcologists and show those people just what a math LD is!
I'm NOT stupid!!!!!
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6097 Joined: 2008-05-25
2/209
I had the Wechsler. But, mine was for adults, so it was a little different from yours. Some of the scores were 'translated' for me, but the ones that weren't 'translated', I've never figured out. By reading the report, I got the gist of what the scores meant. So, even though mine was a different test, I have the same problem. - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on February 02 2009 05:37 PM
Location: United States Posts: 191 Joined: 2008-05-24
Good to know I'm not the only one, justfoundout!
I took the WAIS - III. It also says this, under Evaluative Measures: Woodcock-Johnson III Normative Update; Tests of Achievement Form -A. I'm not sure what that means, or if it is important...And, yes, ert, here are the results:
My Broad Reading Scores were: Actual 123 Predicted 105 Difference 18 Variation (PR: 98; SD: +2.01) Singnificant at + or - 1.50 SD (SEE): Yes
My Broad Math Scores were: Acutal 88 Predicted 117 Difference -29 Variation (PR 0.4; SD -2.63) Singnificant at + or - 1.50 SD (SEE) Yes
My Broad Written/Language Scores were: Actual: 124 Predicted 195 Difference 19 Variation (PR 98; SD +2.05) Significant at + or - 1.50 SD (SEE) Yes
Phew! Okay, there are a bunch of scores now....OH, by the way, they're based on ages 16-10.
It says Cluster Tests and then a page worth of subjects, and their Proficiency, RPI, SS (90% Band) and PR. Do you want all of those? I can type them out, it will just take a while.
And then here's another bunch:
WAIS - III
Verbal Sub-Scale Performance Sub-Scale
Vocab: SS = 17 Picture Completion: SS = 13
Similarities: SS = 18 Digit Symbol Coding: SS = 8
Arithmetic : SS = 10 Block Design: SS = 11
Digit Span: SS = 12 Matrix Resoning: SS = 13
Information: SS = 12 Picutre Arrangement: SS = 11
Comprehension: SS = 14
Verbal IQ = 124 (119-127) Verbal Comprehension Index = 134 (128-137)
Performance IQ = 107 (101-112) Perceptual Organizational Indes = 114 (107-119)
Full Scale IQ = 118 (114-121)
Okay...I think that's it. I'm not sure exactly what these numbers mean....But my parents don't believe for a second that I'm at 8th grade level in math. I, too, think I'm lower than that....But they assumed through the whole test that since I went to school in 8th grade, I should be at that level, at least.
The whole report is riddled with inconsistencies and false assumptions. Like I said on anohter thread, my mama has started over a page of corrections of things that they got WRONG. So, we shall see what we shall see....
