|
Prosopagnosia or faceblindness
|
| Disastra |
Posted on March 07 2009 12:33 PM
|
Member
Location: Wales UK
Posts: 28
Joined: 2009-02-28
|
http://www.facebl...index.html
If life hands you a ruled notebook, write the other way around. |
| |
|
|
| justfoundout |
Posted on March 07 2009 03:02 PM
|
Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6103
Joined: 2008-05-25
|
3/7/09
Dear Disastra,
That was such a great link for you to find and put here on the forum. Thank you.
I didn't go ahead and take the two tests yet. I want to take them when I'm feeling 'at my best', so that I'll know that just feeling 'blah' didn't give me a positive result.
I bought and read a book that contained the story, "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat", by Oliver Wolf Sacks. Once we've recognized the existence of dyscalculia within our own brain, we become aware of the challenges that others face, and have been facing, for all these years. "Comprehension" sets in. - jus'
See the Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikiped...iver_Sacks
Edited by justfoundout on March 07 2009 03:05 PM |
| |
|
|
| CheshireKat |
Posted on March 07 2009 08:05 PM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 1860
Joined: 2008-11-14
|
I took the Cambridge Face Memory Test (the first one) and this was my result:
"Out of 72 faces, you correctly identified 48.
In other words, you got 67% correct.
On our previous version of this test, the average person with normal face recognition was able to recognize about 80% of the faces. If you correctly identified less than 65% of the faces, this may indicate face recognition difficulties."
I certainly don't think I have face blindness - I believe it has more to do with my poor working memory (one of the facets of dyscalculia) and not having very long to look at the faces.
I used to have a really hard time recognizing customers who had asked me to find something for them, because I just couldn't remember them distinctively (for example, I can remember "the brown haired lady" or "the woman in the red shirt" but if there are multiple brunettes or red-wearing people in the store, it became a problem). I only looked at them for about ten seconds, as they were asking me the question, then I left to find whatever it is they wanted.
If a customer would ask me to go look for something, and when I returned they weren't standing in the exact spot I left them, I had to look for them in the store. Since I could never remember what they looked like I ended up going up to a lot of random people and saying, "Ma'am, we didn't have (insert item here)" only to have the woman give me a peculiar look and say, "I didn't ask you to find anything for me." Whoops! Eventually I would usually find the person who had originally asked me... or even better, they would approach me and say, "Did you find it?"
On the other hand, if I sit and have a two minute conversation with a customer about something (like while ringing them up), I will recognize them forever after that. In the store, around town, in a picture, it doesn't matter - once I've had time to "log" their face into my LTM, I usually won't forget them. I had a strong rapport with several of our regular customers at my old job because I always recognized them and stopped to chat with them when they came in... that's the only part about the job I miss.
Speaking of this, ironically there is a regular customer at the store who has prosopagnosia, and a quite severe case of it too. She is very distinctive in the way she presents herself - her clothes are always in bright colors and patterns, she wears lots of jewelry like rings and necklaces, she wears a lot of make-up, etc. The first time I ever saw her I thought she was quite eccentric, until she gave me a little booklet (which I still have) that explains what face blindness is, and how it affects people.
I wish I could find the pamphlet she gave me so I could tell you in her own words, but basically she said that she dresses the way she does so that she can recognize herself easily, so that she feels like she has a visible identity. Everyone around her, in her perception, looks pretty much the same, so there's a kind of anxiety to be recognizable even though the rest of the world does not share in her disease. It was so interesting and eye-opening for me because before meeting Liz (that's her name), I had never even heard of face blindness.
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer |
| |
|
|
| ert |
Posted on March 08 2009 11:10 PM
|
Member
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1388
Joined: 2005-03-11
|
I'm either very lucky or psycic. The last part of the test, I was guessing. I had no idea what to choose, I couldn't find the right faces. So I just clicked to get to the next part. And apparently I guessed right, because I got a pretty okay score. Forgot what, but in the normal range. And I'm SO so bad with faces.
But I think it's my working memory, as mentioned above. I remember faces that I've seen a thousand times. Meaning, I recognize people when I see them, but only if I've seen them many times before.
There's another thing though. I can't find the faces in my head. I know I'm looking at my mom when I'm looking at my mom, but I can't imagine her face in my head. .
I think that also why I can't draw anything to save my life. I know what an elephant is when I see it, but I can't find the image in my head when there's no psysical representation of the elephant. (well this and motor skills, but finding the image in my head is the thing that makes me stop even trying to draw)
Edited by ert on March 08 2009 11:15 PM |
| |
|
|
| Disastra |
Posted on March 09 2009 02:33 PM
|
Member
Location: Wales UK
Posts: 28
Joined: 2009-02-28
|
ert, I have that problem too. I can tell you what someone I know really well looks like as i carry a word picture of them around in my memory, but there is no 'picture' of their face that comes to mind when I think of them at all. This is even the case with my children, and I'd never admit that to anyone 'normal.'
My tendancy, Kat, is not to recognise people out of context as it were. I will know them straight away when they come into my shop but will sometimes not recognise them at all if they speak to me in the street, particularly if it is in another town (we live in a small village and so most people visit the close town for shopping). It can be so embarassing when people are chatting away to me and i'm thinking "Who is this?" and can't place them. There are times when it isn't until i see them in the usual place again that i realise with whom i had been speaking.
I've often been accused of not saying hello to people in the street, and nowadays i pass it off with an apology and an explanation that i was 'away with the fairies' lol.
If life hands you a ruled notebook, write the other way around. |
| |
|
|
| AnimalHugger |
Posted on March 09 2009 07:15 PM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 191
Joined: 2008-05-24
|
This is SO interesting!!!
I have always had problems like this. Makes me seem like an air-head pretty often, but there you go! I, too, have trouble envisioning just about anyone in my head, even people I'm close to. I can tell you all about them, talk endlessly about what they're like (ie - funny, sarcastic, cool, etc.), but can't tell you what color their eyes are, or if their hair is red or blonde. It is kind of ridiculous!
I can't tell you how many time I've talked with someone who remembers me when I don't remember them. I remember specific intances when I talked to certain people, but I remember their words, not their faces. So you have to be pretty distinct for me to remember you (on the basis of your appearance) over a long period of time! (It's a good thing that I have my sister around...Her memory is amazing.)
I want to take the tests, but I haven't yet because I'm sort of leery about giving my information to them. So I'm not sure if I'll actually take the test, although I'm positive that I wouldn't do good on it.
But, yeah...I wonder if this has anything to do with remembering first impressions of people...For whatever reason, I can't remember when I first met most of my friends. They seem to remember meeting me in vivid detail, but I just don't. (Maybe it's a mark of my strangeness, but all but one of my friends said that they thought I was weird when they first met me!) Is this just me, or do you guys and girls have trouble remembering this, too?
I'm NOT stupid!!!!! |
| |
|
|
| CheshireKat |
Posted on March 09 2009 09:13 PM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 1860
Joined: 2008-11-14
|
AnimalHugger wrote:
I can tell you all about them, talk endlessly about what they're like (ie - funny, sarcastic, cool, etc.), but can't tell you what color their eyes are, or if their hair is red or blonde. It is kind of ridiculous!
I am actually very peculiar in that I can tell you the eye color of almost any person I've ever met in my entire life, even people I haven't seen in years. I tend to look people directly in the eyes when I speak to them, so it's something I always notice. Hair color I also have a good memory for... I am actually a very detail-oriented person, and can remember many physical as well as personality details about someone I know well.
For me the problem isn't remembering people long-term, it's remembering new faces short-term. If I can't get a good look at a person for more than 2-3 minutes, I will have a hard time remembering what they look like (as was demonstrated by my poor "test" result earlier). If I spend a day with you though, I will never forget what you look like, and I'll be able to pick you out of any crowd.
I find that there are many things ASIDE from faces that I notice about people and that I use to identify them. I think it has to do with having not-so-great eyesight and not having gotten glasses until I was 13 (I never complained about not being able to see because I didn't realize I couldn't see to begin with).
As a coping mechanism for not being able to see people's faces from a distance of more than 10 feet, I have always noticed other distinct features, like their body shape, the way they walk, the sound of their voice, and other less distinct qualities. I can see someone coming from across a football field and identify them just by the way they walk if it's one of my friends, even if they have a bag over their head.
A lot of this probably has to do with that I am just a people-watcher in general. It might sound weird, but I love to just sit in a public place (like the mall) and watch people go about their lives. The things they say, their body language, their expressions, all the little things that make them who they are. My Journalism adviser in high school used to joke that I had a "secret file" on everybody because I could tell you the most random things about people, like that they eat this more than that, or they never cross their legs when they sit, etc.
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer |
| |
|
|
| monkeyfeathersmom |
Posted on March 10 2009 12:29 AM
|
Member
Location: Southeastern U.S.
Posts: 322
Joined: 2008-11-10
|
My daughter scored below a 1% on the face recognition portion of her testing. I've never heard of this before. MF's just went through a very lengthy , or clothing, or even height. This is so fascinating. I learn something new everyday.
CheshireKat, also, MF's is obsessed with eyes! She can tell you the color of everyone of her friend's and family member's eyes, even down to the flecks.
Sometimes on here I just say WOW.
I keep adding to this post. I took the Cambridge test and got 89% recognition. That was very interesting. Thanks for posting that site!
MF's got 36% of the faces.
Edited by monkeyfeathersmom on March 10 2009 02:29 AM
Parent of math impaired 14 year old daughter.
"...they think a lot of my issues are caused by math anxiety (but my anxiety would be caused by dyscalulia, now wouldn't it?)" - AnimalHugger |
| |
|
|
| monkeyfeathersmom |
Posted on March 10 2009 01:20 AM
|
Member
Location: Southeastern U.S.
Posts: 322
Joined: 2008-11-10
|
Sorry for the double post. I went deeper into the site and found this:
http://www.gettin.../Home.html
For those of you have get lost easily, it might be worth a look! (Something else MF's has great difficulties with!)
Parent of math impaired 14 year old daughter.
"...they think a lot of my issues are caused by math anxiety (but my anxiety would be caused by dyscalulia, now wouldn't it?)" - AnimalHugger |
| |
|
|
| Lostinspatial |
Posted on March 10 2009 06:22 PM
|
Member
Location: That would require me to know where I was
Posts: 429
Joined: 2008-06-08
|
I took both the first one (54%) and the celebrity one (93% compared with 85% for most of the population). I think the celebrity one was easier for me because news articles, movies, music videos, tv shows all include the names with the images, so having them side by side makes them easier for me to remember.
At work, I tend to either remember people by research I've had to do for them (if I don't already recongize the name when it comes in by email, I look it up on our intranet and look at the photo). When I see people in the elevator, I tend to think of them by their request instead of their name (but I remember the name by remembering the research and remembering myself typing their name into an email). I was really embarassed by having met one of the admin directors several times. I finally just remembered her the last time I saw her after nearly 3 years and a number of introductions.
I go overboard on saying hi because I'm afraid people will think I'm rude. Sometimes I have the same, hi, how are you conversation with someone I saw 15 minutes ago because I don't instantly recongize the person!
Edited by Lostinspatial on March 10 2009 06:57 PM |
| |
|
|
| saruna |
Posted on March 10 2009 09:54 PM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 195
Joined: 2008-01-08
|
I got about 30% correct when I took the test, so it's possible that I have a problem like this. I contacted them but haven't heard anything, possibly because I live in the US.
I made the mistake of mentioning my problem with recognizing faces to my voc. rehab councilor and he began asking me if I drank or did drugs. Then he asked me if I heard voices.
So I'm a little afraid to mention it to anyone for fear of being labeled a drug addict or "insane". He sent me to have another psychological profile done which came back normal just like the first one. O.o |
| |
|
|
| CheshireKat |
Posted on March 10 2009 10:30 PM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 1860
Joined: 2008-11-14
|
Saruna wrote:
I made the mistake of mentioning my problem with recognizing faces to my voc. rehab councilor and he began asking me if I drank or did drugs. Then he asked me if I heard voices.
So I'm a little afraid to mention it to anyone for fear of being labeled a drug addict or "insane". He sent me to have another psychological profile done which came back normal just like the first one. O.o
Difficulty with facial recognition is a symptom of schizophrenia, which is probably why he was asking you if you did drugs, because if you did it would be impossible to tell if it was the drugs or the schizophrenia causing the problem. Also, a lot of schizophrenics do drugs. The voices... well, yeah, schizophrenia. 
At least he's being careful! Schizophrenia is difficult to diagnose so even though it startled you a bit, kudos to him for being so careful about it.
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer |
| |
|
|
| AnimalHugger |
Posted on March 11 2009 12:27 AM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 191
Joined: 2008-05-24
|
I'm sorry, Saruna, when I read your last paragraph, I just burst out laughing!
I wouldn't have even thought that someone would respond like that, I guess because I have the same problem...Wow. I think I'll keep that in mind!
At least your profile came back normal...
I'm NOT stupid!!!!! |
| |
|
|
| justfoundout |
Posted on March 11 2009 03:31 AM
|
Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6103
Joined: 2008-05-25
|
3/10/09
Dear Saruna,
I think that the Vocational Counselor was 'over zealous'. Mine had not been so obvious toward me as yours was. He was 'hard to read'. But he ignored what I told him was my problem, the MLD, and sent me to a psychologist who had almost zero experience in testing for a MLD. The counselor thought that he was being 'ever so clever', and he ended up costing me two semesters of my life and a year's worth of financial earnings by getting me a wrong diagnosis (i.e., that I didn't have a MLD.). It's no joking matter when a counselor gets a 'wrong idea'. But most people who haven't experienced this phenomena wouldn't even believe that it can happen. As Geena Davis said in some movie, "Be afraid. Be very afraid." - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on March 11 2009 03:35 AM |
| |
|
|
| Lostinspatial |
Posted on March 11 2009 05:26 PM
|
Member
Location: That would require me to know where I was
Posts: 429
Joined: 2008-06-08
|
CheshireKat wrote:
Saruna wrote:
I made the mistake of mentioning my problem with recognizing faces to my voc. rehab councilor and he began asking me if I drank or did drugs. Then he asked me if I heard voices.
So I'm a little afraid to mention it to anyone for fear of being labeled a drug addict or "insane". He sent me to have another psychological profile done which came back normal just like the first one. O.o
Difficulty with facial recognition is a symptom of schizophrenia, which is probably why he was asking you if you did drugs, because if you did it would be impossible to tell if it was the drugs or the schizophrenia causing the problem. Also, a lot of schizophrenics do drugs. The voices... well, yeah, schizophrenia.
At least he's being careful! Schizophrenia is difficult to diagnose so even though it startled you a bit, kudos to him for being so careful about it.
It's one thing to say something like "well, this can be associated with schizophrenia or drugs, as well as visual spatial impairments so we need to rule those 2 out to confirm that it's visual spatial". That's acknowledging the visual spatial issue. This counselor (which I'm taking it is the same one telling Saruna to get a job in the stockroom at Walmart & that Saruna's going to fail a course mentioned in the other thread) doesn't sound like he acknowledged that the face issue could be part of a larger visual spatial problem. This thread and the other make me wonder about the counselor's competence.
Edited by Lostinspatial on March 11 2009 05:37 PM |
| |
|
|
| Lostinspatial |
Posted on March 11 2009 05:33 PM
|
Member
Location: That would require me to know where I was
Posts: 429
Joined: 2008-06-08
|
justfoundout wrote:
3/10/09
It's no joking matter when a counselor gets a 'wrong idea'. But most people who haven't experienced this phenomena wouldn't even believe that it can happen. As Geena Davis said in some movie, "Be afraid. Be very afraid." - jus'
I hear ya on that one. My educational tester decided (& wrote in a report) that I didn't deal with negative emotions well based on some of the picture testing and the fact that I didn't go into great detail re: my family's experience with substance abuse during the psychological history taking part of things. Well, DUH, trouble reading emotions/social cues from people's facial expressions can be part of the visual spatial issue and most people who grow up with substance abuse in their homes are told not to talk about it and sometimes even threatened if they do. So, in general, unless we reallly trust you or have some sort of anonymity (e.g. online forums), we're not going to be chatty about that facet of our lives.
This person in the process of getting an ivy league degree in her field overlooked these 2 basic things which anyone with any common sense and cursory knowledge of the issues should know. Fortunately, I didn't have anything like a degree or custody or prison time riding on this. The really frightening thing is there are people who do. I really think the psychological field needs more strigent credentials an a higher degree of regulation. Where's the soapbox smiley?
Edited by Lostinspatial on March 11 2009 05:35 PM |
| |
|
|
| justfoundout |
Posted on March 11 2009 08:02 PM
|
Member
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 6103
Joined: 2008-05-25
|
3/11/09
Thank you so much for those comments, Lostinspatial. You nailed it. - jus'
P.S. On Saruna two stories, I think the Vocational Counselor was one person and the Math Tutor was someone else.
Edited by justfoundout on March 11 2009 08:04 PM |
| |
|
|
| Laura |
Posted on March 12 2009 12:27 AM
|
Member
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1229
Joined: 2006-11-16
|
Hey guys,
I took the Cambridge test and i got 62 right which is 86%
I then took the Famous Faces and I got 24 right but was familiar with 29 of the people which is 83%
My problem is that i CAN NOT look at people in the eyes. I know weird. I have always been like this. I was always getting in trouble in school for not lookign at the teacher when being told something as i just CAN NOT do it. So i was forced to stare into their eyes which just freaked me out. I sorted that problem out by looking at their mouths or nose's or chin's instead as my eyes are actually pretending to be on their eyes but in fact are looking at their mouth etc. I am still like this now. I can not look into a camera if someone is taking my photo's. My best mate is forever saying we need a good photo of you and I but i just cant and its really frustrating.
I wear glasses and i feel i can look at people who wear glasses. But not "normal" people with no glasses. I can not tell you what colour of eyes my best mate has. She use to have a thing about trying to look under my face as if your talking to a kid to see where my eyes go and they go mental when she did that. I also feel really uncomfortable when made to do this. She was doing it to see how bad i was at it so i knew it was happeneing just didn't know when. As my boss said that's my Autistic sign as everyone has a bit of Autism in them. Mines is eye contact. Not good at that and even though i have known you for years i still wouldn't be able to look at you in the eyes. I cant even look at my Twin Sister in the eyes heehee!! Actually i dont even know what colour of eyes i have oopss!!!
BEEN THERE DONE THAT, GOT THE T-SHIRT |
| |
|
|
| CheshireKat |
Posted on March 12 2009 03:24 AM
|
Member
Location: United States
Posts: 1860
Joined: 2008-11-14
|
Laura - I think we'd have a very hard time having a conversation face to face, because it drives me nuts when people won't look me in the eye when I'm talking to them! I do what your friend does to you, to other people when they won't look me in the eye -- I move myself so that I am in their line of vision, so they really can't avoid looking at me when they're talking. I have been told before that I am a little intimidating to talk to... maybe that's why, lol. I dunno, I just feel like I can get a better read on someone if I'm looking them in the eye, and if they won't look me in the eye, it makes me think they're hiding something. I know in a lot of cases that's not true (a lot of people are just shy or anxious about eye contact, like you) but I don't trust easily so if someone won't look me in the eye, I assume they're shifty.
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer |
| |
|
|
| Laura |
Posted on March 12 2009 11:43 PM
|
Member
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1229
Joined: 2006-11-16
|
Hey Cheshire Kat,
Ahhhh ye i don't think we could have a face-face conversation as i would just be like "I don't think so" and i would become quite embarrassed. I think its great that people find eyes fascinating and interesting and apparently you can learn a lot about people from their eyes. But to me its like putting me in a room full of strangers and every single person's eyes are on you. Its kinda like i am in a fish bowl and on for show- if this makes sense.
Heehee!!! Yes my friend drives ME nuts with that. She does this sometimes if its just her and i to see what i do and how i react. Mainly when we are having a laugh. She knows i look at her mouth and she is self-concious about her mouth so she tries to freak me out by doing this to me. She just doesn't understand how hard it is for me to look at people's eyes.
At school i was made to. This freaked me out even more and i would just want to laugh and scream out loud as i was VERY anxious. I do not know why though. I obviously have to go and get my eyes see to by the opticians. I hate this. I am sitting in the chair and i am gripping onto the chair so much my knuckles go white. I hate these appointments but this is an essential thing i have to do so i grin and bare it. I would love contact lenses but i have a phobia thing about putting my fingers in my eyes. I just can't do it. Its driving me insane as i would love to get rid of my glasses. I have tried contacts but i could not put them in or take them out. Even letting the Opticians do it was a nightmare.
I do totally have a phobia of the eyes and its a nightmare.
People who look into my eyes makes me feel uncomfortable and uneasy and i just want to scream or laugh.
I can however look at people on the tv or in magazines and not feel freaked which my mate thinks is crazy. I said they are not speaking/looking at me. They are in a photograph and there is nothing i can do about that. If i was to meet them i would be looking at their mouths etc
Edited by Laura on March 12 2009 11:45 PM
BEEN THERE DONE THAT, GOT THE T-SHIRT |
| |
|
