I am very new here and I hope you can all bear with me as I write this introduction with a great deal of emotion. I only found out two days ago that Dyscalculia even exists. I wish someone had told me, and my family, about this when I was in grade school.
When it comes to numbers, I have spent most of my life in a sea of confusion. I cannot do a fraction to save my soul, decimals are a hit and miss, and forget about Algebra or any higher-level math—I never made it that far.
Teachers would tell my parents that I was not applying myself enough. I can remember spending hours sitting with my very frustrated father (who was a chartered accountant) struggling to understand basic math concepts. He finally gave up trying to teach me, telling my Mom it was impossible.
While in Grade 8, I did so poorly in math class that I was finally pulled aside and given an assessment to see what level I was at. I tested at a Grade 3 level. After that, I was placed in the “dummies” math class for the rest of my school life. I still did not even pass Grade 8 or Grade 10 math, yet they kept passing me because I was so good at every other subject. By the 11th grade, I was not required to take math any longer, which was not a hardship for me–I had no intention of ever setting foot in another math class again.
I cannot add numbers in my head as others can do. Both of my daughters would laugh at me for that, because in stores or whatever, I would always ask them to quickly tell me how much we had spent when purchasing things. They always thought it was funny and that somehow I was “faking it”.
Directions are another thing I cannot understand. The standing joke in my family is that I need a map to get to the corner store. My ex-husband even complained to our marriage counselor about it and was told that some people are not good with directions. Until then, he always thought I was so stupid that way, or faking it.
Naturally, I did not go to college or university and I dropped out of high school in grade 11 partially because of my math difficulties. I figured if I couldn’t go to university since I’d never pass the math entrance exam, what was the point in even finishing school. I won’t even bother to bore you all with the details of how not finishing high school has negatively impacted my life—I’m sure you can all fill in the blanks on that one.
I was divorced when my youngest daughter was still an infant. At that point, I was forced to seek higher education in order to support myself and both my daughters. When I went for the community college math test (I would never have been able to pass a university level math test), I studied for it beforehand. I even insisted on putting off the test for weeks, telling them I had to deal with “divorce issues” when the truth was, I was trying to learn fractions and decimals in order to pass the test. I only passed it by one percentage point, even after weeks of studying. If you asked me to do a fraction now, I would not know how.
In community college, in order to pass the required Business Math course, I did get extra help from the teacher, but even he was shocked at how little math I knew. I did pass the course though—barely. It meant a lot of late nights and even getting a classmate to tutor me in the evenings, but I managed to at least pass the class.
Discovering now, in my late 40’s, that Dyscalculia is what has been the driving force behind so many of my life issues is a stunning revelation for me. I have been crying off and on for two days now every time I think of another embarrassing incident that points to the Dyscalculia. I am an expert on making excuses for why I cannot understand something mathematically related or on finding ways to get someone else to figure it out for me—thinking up on-the-spot excuses to hide my inadequacy with math has become as natural for me as breathing.
I do not know where I will go from here now that I know about Dyscalculia and that I likely have it. Since I only discovered this forum today, I would like to know how others deal with, and have dealt with, Dyscalculia in their lives.
It is so nice to come here, talk about my problem, and know that there are others out there who suffer from the same thing. Thank you so much for this forum.
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6103 Joined: 2008-05-25
11/18/11
Hi Ladyhawke,
What you've written was spoken as a true dyscalculic! So much of what you've said sounds like 'me'. I didn't find out about dyscalculia until I was much older than you. Such a surprise. Such a huge surprise. I'd failed Elementary Algebra three times and lost my Financial Aid because of it. I still can't do Elementary Algebra. Using your 'divorce issues' to delay your test, I must say, made me smile.
I am only now attending a 4 year University. This wouldn't have been possible were it not for the dyscalculia diagnosis. With that diagnosis, I got to replace my math credits with a Logic class. Now I can get an art degree.
I'm glad you've found us here. You'll 'see yourself' in other's stories, and vice versa. It's reassuring. Welcome here. - jus'
Location: United States Posts: 1860 Joined: 2008-11-14
Hey Ladyhawke, I'm Kat, welcome to the forum! Your story sounds like so many of the stories people tell here. I wasn't diagnosed until college, but I am grateful that I at least found out in college and it didn't take until I was in my 40s to figure it out.
I always struggled with math, numbers, and directions from very early on, but we always just assumed I was "bad at math" because I performed so well in English, social studies, and any science class that didn't have a math component (so biology, and the conceptual, non-mathematical parts of chemistry, physics, and earth sciences). Believe it or not, in high school I actually took Algebra I, Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry, and Analytic Geometry, all at the honors level. I made C's in most of those classes, but because I was passing them and because I was in the gifted program and getting A's in all of my other classes, they just tracked me for honors math classes too.
My school made the (terribly mistaken) assumption that if you're gifted in X subject, then you're also going to be gifted in everything you do. Why on God's green earth they made that assumption I have no idea, but because of it I ended up filling my high school career with excruciating math classes. I also took Earth Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Marine Biology, all at the honors level (my school didn't have AP sciences, so honors was the highest I could go).
I LOVED those classes... until math got involved. I skated through my Bio classes, and with a lot of grit I made it through Physics and Chem with solid B's. My teachers in those classes were definitely puzzled as to why I could do so well on concepts and so, so poorly on math, though. My Physics teacher used to tutor me after school twice a week to help me with the math portion of her class, and we would both end up exasperated and totally mentally fatigued by the end of the hour. "How can you be so smart and so bad at what is essentially elementary-level math?" she would ask me, and I honestly didn't know.
Not until I was diagnosed with dyscalculia in college, after flunking out of Pre-Calc Algebra, anyway. I emailed her after my diagnosis to let her know, and she was actually thrilled that 1) there was a reason I was struggling, and that I was getting help, and 2) now she knew what dyscalculia was so if she had a student like me in the future, she could help them better. She is a great teacher, as you could probably surmise. She genuinely wanted to help me, she just didn't know how.
As far as how I cope with it, the area where I need the most help is obviously academia. I failed and had to repeat Pre-Calc Algebra and Trigonometry at the college level, but with accommodations I was able to pass both of those classes, as well as Stats 1. I get unrestricted calculator use, extra time on my exams, and testing in a quiet environment (I also have ADHD so it's useful for both of those).
Sorry about giving you my whole life story, but there you have it. I just wanted you to see clearly that you are definitely not the only person who has felt this way before! Welcome again to the forum, I hope you find everything you need here. "The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer
Thank you so much for the replies. I am still reeling from the discovery of this condition that explains so much of what has happened in my life.
The next time I talk to either one of my daughters (who are both out on their own now), I will definitely have a lot to tell them about Dyscalculia! I can’t help but wonder how they will react. It explains so much of their lives, too. They’ve had to compensate and make excuses for me all their lives. I feel terrible knowing that if we had only been aware of this condition, things could have been so different.
I remember taking my youngest daughter with me to buy my last car, because I knew when the salesperson went through the financing documentation with me, I wouldn’t understand a damn thing. She was able to explain things to me in a way that I understood but also without giving me away to the salesperson. We had developed a sort of coded way of speaking in our family. I don’t know if anyone here can relate to it, but that’s what happened within our family, probably as a coping mechanism. We don’t even know we do it, it just happens.
All those grocery store line-ups, where I would make a game out of it to see which daughter could add up the groceries the quickest, when in reality, I couldn’t have done it to save my soul and people just thought I was trying to improve their math skills. The numerous math related incidents keep playing in my head repeatedly now…
CheshireKat, I completely related to your difficulties with science. I also had trouble with physics and chemistry, and like you, only the math components. I loved Biology and did really well in it, but because I couldn’t pass physics, I failed that course in Grade 10 too. It breaks my heart to realize that had they known about this condition then, I could still possibly have gone on to do what I had always wanted to do and that was to become a nurse. From what I understand, biology was the most important course to succeed in a nursing program. I had to give up the nursing idea after I flunked that Grade 10 science class.
Justfoundout, I admire you for taking that arts degree! I would have loved to go to university, but I never would have passed an entrance exam for the required math, so I gave up on that idea a long time ago. I’ve contented myself with working and taking night school courses for various things I am interested in. Fortunately, the courses I am taking only require a grade 12 equivalency and I recently completed my adult high school diploma, which was a major achievement for me.
Again, thank you both for the warm welcome! I am sometimes afraid to post on forums due to the various trolls that inhabit places like this, but it doesn’t appear that there are any on here, or perhaps the mods are disposing of their posts quickly and efficiently!
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6103 Joined: 2008-05-25
11/19/11
Hello again, LadyHawk,
Yes, we have good Admins. I did almost exactly what you did. I took courses (albeit cc courses) of what I wanted to learn, not knowing how I could ever finish the degree due to the math. I'd done a year and a half toward a 2-year art degree and quit to take a job. In actuality, I'd already done all the 'arithmetic' that was required and I knew that next I'd be asked to do the beginnings of algebra. So, in part, I ran before I could be pushed.
I also wanted to tell (debuting here for the first time!) the story of when I bought my previous car. It was slightly used,... had been someone's lemon, but I didn't know that of course. My mechanic had been a car salesman and had his shop near the dealership, so he volunteered himself to go with me to pick out a car. He practically picked out my car himself and I didn't object. He told them that I would be trading in my previous (previous) car. But what happened then was one of those developments that could only happen in a dream/nightmare,... like one of those 'out on stage undressed' dreams. The mechanic who had been well nigh a control freak a few minutes previously evidently assumed that his job was done. He either 'left' the premises to go back to work, or was out on the lot looking at cars himself, when he surrenderred me to the man in the credit office. The man in the credit office was filling out paperwork in a flurry of activity, saying, "Sign here." and "Sign there." And, "$150.00 will get you tinted glass." which I declined. (Wait for it.) And then I asked, "What will my interest rate be?", and he answered, "Oh, well, we have our own in-house rate that would be too complicated to explain." And I said, "Oh." and signed all the papers.
Can you believe? How could I have been so naive? And how could I have let the mechanic (who, for all his faults, really was wanting to help me) abandon me right when I was at the most crucial step? This happened before I knew about dyscalculia. So, just like you, it would have changed the whole course of my life to have known about it sooner. - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on November 19 2011 09:28 PM
justfoundout wrote:
11/19/11
And then I asked, "What will my interest rate be?", and he answered, "Oh, well, we have our own in-house rate that would be too complicated to explain." And I said, "Oh." and signed all the papers.
Can you believe? How could I have been so naive? And how could I have let the mechanic (who, for all his faults, really was wanting to help me) abandon me right when I was at the most crucial step? This happened before I knew about dyscalculia. So, just like you, it would have changed the whole course of my life to have known about it sooner. - jus'
OMG, I feel SO BAD for you, Jus! Although I am terrible with math, I will use ANY excuse to cover for it and buy myself time to think about any financial transactions and find out what I need to know before I sign anything. It's just something I've learned to do. When I was in my early twenties, I used to get burnt a lot on financial transactions (never for a car purchase though, didn't even have a licence until I was much older) so I learned to say or do anything it took to buy time.
Being a natural blonde has certainly had its advantages too--I swear by it. People really do have a stereotype of a "dumb blonde" in their heads thanks to television and the media, so I simply take advantage of their distorted perceptions.
Now that I'm much older, I simply don't tolerate much anymore so when I insist on taking time to make a financial decision, they attribute it to me being some fussy, idiosyncratic person. Hey, whatever works, right?
Location: United States Posts: 1860 Joined: 2008-11-14
I don't do anything financial without calling my mom first, partly because I suck at numbers and she's much better with them, but also just because she's really, really good with money and I'm not. I have no concept of how much is going until it's already gone... so I definitely need her counsel on any important decision money-wise. She always tells me that I'd better marry someone who's good with money or I'm going to be screwed!
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer
CheshireKat wrote:
I don't do anything financial without calling my mom first, partly because I suck at numbers and she's much better with them, but also just because she's really, really good with money and I'm not. I have no concept of how much is going until it's already gone... so I definitely need her counsel on any important decision money-wise. She always tells me that I'd better marry someone who's good with money or I'm going to be screwed!
Amazingly, I'm excellent with money, but only because I don't earn very much anyway and it's easy to keep track of it. It's things like figuring out what interest I'll be paying on something or complicated math transactions I have trouble with.
Realizing that I have a math learning disability makes me understand now why I am such a control freak when it comes to handling what little money I do earn. I think I've always instinctively known that if I allowed it to get out of control, I'd never be able to figure it out, so I've always kept track of it.
My daughters, if they were so inclined, can certainly attest to all of you about the way I would write down what we had spent money on and as soon as I would get home I would do a "reconciliation" and keep an ongoing tab on what was coming in and what was going out. I was obssessive about it. Nowadays I don't keep as much track of it, but I'm on my own now so I don't usually spend that much money anyway and it's very easy to reconcile it at any given moment.
I am never without a calculator; and, I never leave home without making sure it's in my handbag. I guess we all learn to cope with our shortcomings in our own way and with what works best.
Location: Munising, MI, USA Posts: 791 Joined: 2010-10-09
I dread having to buy my first car. Or anything else that is a major financial decision. I dread even trying to balance a checkbook.
I'm NOT lost, I'm just taking the scenic rout!
squeakymonster wrote:
I dread having to buy my first car. Or anything else that is a major financial decision. I dread even trying to balance a checkbook.
Squeaky, if you bring someone with you who is good with numbers, you should be OK. My mother threw a fit when she found out my daughter had come with me to buy that car, telling me it was "inappropriate to bring a 12 yr old to make a big purchase like that".
What my Mom meant is that when going through the application process, I'm giving them (the dealership) all my financial history and my daughter is hearing all this. My Mom thinks that is none of their (my daughters) business.
In my opinion, I think that not only did I need the mathematical support my youngest daughter could offer me, but she learned what it's really like to make a major financial purchase; and, that it's not as simple as just driving the car off the lot because you like the colour after signing a piece of paper. Both my daughters have probably been exposed to way more financial knowledge than the average child because of my then unknown disability, but I don't think it's hurt them at all.
I always despised the way my parents kept everything so secret with finances to the point that when I got out on my own, I didn't even know what car insurance was! I always talked to my daughters openly about finances and explained to them why we couldn't purchase certain things because other bills took priority.
Unfortunately, it must be an inherited trait, because even after all that early exposure, my youngest daughter even without Dyscalculia still can't control her money, but then neither could my ex! His idea of money was that you bought "toys" first and whatever was left over went to pay the bills and he definitely did not have Dyscalculia. Needless to say, that didn't work out to well.
I recommend that you bring someone with you to make your major purchases, squeaky, and bite the bullet on the financial privacy issues. You'd much rather get treated fairly than end up like Jus here who paid dearly for not having someone there to advise her she was making a bad decision.
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6103 Joined: 2008-05-25
11/24/11
I never had any financial training when I was growing up either, LadyHawk. Looking back, it's amazing how people used to think that children could grow up like that and then, miraculously, walk out the door at 18 years of age and know how to financially manage their lives.
About that car I bought, though, I'll add that, to this day, I don't know whether or not I 'paid dearly' or just 'paid'. I had a good job at the time, made all my payments, and finally got the title to the car. I just 'can't believe' now that I would have signed papers without knowing my interest rate. - jus'
my math LD affects me every day. I wasn't diagnosed til college where I kept failing remedial college math. After 6 years, I did graduate from my university, though.
Got my first checking account during my university years and that was quite a disaster - after I was diagnosed, I usually went to the bank to have them help me with it. Or my then-boyfriend helped me<now husband>.
I remember before I left for my university my mom helped me learn how to write checks. But I never had a high school job - in all honestly probably wouldn't have been socially mature enough to handle it, to say nothing of the mathematical aspects of the kind of job a high schooler would likely have. And I didn't learn to drive til after college, as requirement for first after-college job. It was in case management, working with adults with cognitive disabilities and I had to make home visits, so I had to drive all over my county <program was county-specific to its participants> looking for these peoples' residences - check to see if they were keeping it clean, had food, how their roommate situation was, if they had one - that kinda thing.
My LD really helped me in that job, though, in terms of perspective and the company was extremely accommodating for obvious reasons-
That's great that at least you were diagnosed. I am approaching middle age. It's quite a shock to learn at this age that all your life you've struggled with something un-named, but so annoying!
After reading through others' stories, I will say that I can at least do very simple addition and subtraction, so keeping track of bank accounts, etc., was not that tricky, provided I always had a calculator on me at all times. People just thought I was idiosyncratic and my personality developed in such a way that I made it come across that way--probably as a coping mechanism. It really worked for me though.
Strangely enough, I was able to get my adult high school diploma by substituting accounting for regular math. Amazingly, I got an A in the course. I found accounting an easy process compared to regular math, so I guess my LD operates in a different way. I suppose it's different for everyone. As long as I had a calculator, I was able to get through that course and the accounting process actually made sense to me.
Not so for fractions or algebra. Ugh. The thought of doing that kind of math puts a knot in my stomach. When I took my community college career course following my divorce, they made me take business math and I really struggled to get through it! I barely passed the final exam and I had a panic attack in the middle of it. How ironic it is that I went to community college twice before finally finishing the last required course for my adult high school diploma. lol
I was also late getting my driver's licence, not obtaining it until after my first daughter was almost a year old. I always maintain that it is the reason I am afraid to drive most times, because I was late getting the driver's licence, so I don't have the confidence that only the very young drivers have. The truth is that I'm so bloody directionless, it was always easier to use the other excuse than to have to keep trying to explain why I had no idea how to get to where I was going. lol
I received a very unexpected phone call yesterday from a friend I haven't spoken to in two years. She was my friend for over 30 years, but two years ago, I finally had enough of her being only a "fairweather friend".
Anyway, she called me to let me know that our 30 year class reunion is scheduled in a couple of months and she wants me to go with her. I didn't formally graduate since I dropped out before graduation (I finally graduated last November ).
I did not call this friend back yesterday because I have very mixed feelings about re-connecting with her, going to a reunion for a class I technically did not graduate with, and the biggest reason is seeing all those people I couldn't wait to get away from then. I dropped out of school for two reasons--bullying and my inability to pass a math class. Part of the bullying was due to my "stupidity" in math. Hell, I'd bet most of those people still haven't even heard of Dyscalculia, especially if I only heard about it three months ago.
I checked the Facebook page for the reunion details (my friend mentioned they have a FB page on her phone message) and many of the people going are the very people who severely harassed me all those years. Some harassed me from before high school, so it goes back a long way.
One guy in particular, whose name I did not see as attending (at least not yet anyway) owes me an apology that's 36 years overdue--yes, I figured out the number of years! This bully was so mean to me, I hear his voice and it traumatizes me. When I was age 22, after I'd already been out of school for five years, I ran into him at a company function I was attending with my fiance at the time (it wasn't even where I worked, my fiance worked there). This jerk had the nerve to come up to me at the buffet table and say something to me there. I was so upset that I remember walking back to my fiance, shaking so badly I could barely walk across the room, feeling like everything was surreal with the room spinning, telling him I was ill, and getting him to take me home. I didn't tell my fiance until later what had actually happened because I was afraid that it might start a fight between them and I didn't want the unnecessary attention.
So I guess what I am struggling with is whether even if I gracefully make up with my friend--and I will because I'm not the type of person to hold grudges that long--do I really want to subject myself to more abuse from the very people I escaped from over 30 years ago? I realize it's been 30 years and hopefully these people have matured, but if you could have experienced what I did, that's not something that ever really goes away in my mind and my emotions, so I definitely have concerns.
Has anyone else here struggled with this type of issue?
Ladyhawke
Algebra? When I learn decimals and fractions, you're welcome to try teaching me, but unless you have the patience of a saint and are very long-lived, good luck with that...
I was brutally bullied in my younger school years and still happen to live - with various twists and turns - about 5 minutes from my middle school <7/8th grade> which was the worst of it. I pretended to be sick a lot and was scared all the time. I also purposely pretended to be ill on my 8th grade graduation day because I had been cast as the Princess in a Spanish-language play <I was in Spanish immersion program - including math <ha!>> . I hadn't wanted to be in a play and definately didn't want the starring role that I knew many others - including those who bullied me - coveted. I can guess now that this was the teacher's kind attempt to improve my self-esteem but as is often the case, it was misguided. So anyway, I didn't go that day and I never knew what happened with the play, which was supposed to be performed in front of the whole school.
But, the point is - now, if someone from that time- teacher, student - would get in touch with me and ask to meet, or let me know they were having a reunion - would I go?
YES. I'd go. Why? Cuz my holding onto all that, only serves my drama and my ego. It doesn't change what happened, it doesn't change them and it doesn't help me feel better about myself. If I let them and that time guide my actions , then THAT has control over me. That still has power. I need to own my own power.
People who act in hurtful and scary ways have problems that are their own, not mine. That has everything to do with them and nothing to do with me.
If I was to go to a reunion with people who hurt me then as a child, and still acted that way at the reunion, I'd think that they are still very broken people. I then have the power to do any number of things - try to find other people to discuss with, not worry about it and stay, or leave. But it would be my choice.
Holding on poisons me and reinforces any despair. But I can choose not to be a victim anymore.
You're right of course. Just having mixed emotions about it. Doesn't help that I really didn't graduate with them so I wrestle with that too.
I'll call my friend today and see what's what. If she is rrue to form she won't end up going anyway. This is one of the reasons I finally dubbed her a "fairweather" friend. I got tired of her constantly making plans and then bailing on them at the last second, usually leaving me in the lurch while doing it.
Anyway, thanks for your post, RW.
Ladyhawke
Algebra? When I learn decimals and fractions, you're welcome to try teaching me, but unless you have the patience of a saint and are very long-lived, good luck with that...
I just wanted you to see clearly that you are definitely not the only person who has felt this way before! Welcome again to the forum, I hope you find everything you need here. 
