I discovered this website today, so don't know my way around it yet. I don't even know if it is a site for me. It might be. There is not much to say about myself (educationally, I have two university degrees). As far as my dyscalculia problems .... I have no concept of numbers. I can count by rote, but I have no idea what the numbers stand for. I have panic attacks in stores when I am alone shopping. My wife does all the money side and if I go to the store alone, makes sure I have a bill that is more than enough, but it doesn't stop me from panicking when I get to the checkout.
How on earth did you get through college? I am so curious. The cost to afford the one-on-one, step-by-step help I needed in math was prohibitive. And then sometimes I'd just end up with a few questions that stumped me and ruined the whole term's worth of work. HOW did you do it? Did you have a confirmed diagnosis and special accomodations?
Location: Munising, MI, USA Posts: 787 Joined: 2010-10-09
There are some universities that require math OR science credits to graduate, so if you go with the science classes, you don't need to take the math classes (which is how I'm getting through).
I'm NOT lost, I'm just taking the scenic rout!
Location: United States Posts: 1860 Joined: 2008-11-14
Hi Peter, I'm Kat, welcome to the forum! If you don't mind me asking, what do you have degrees in? I am about to finish up my Bachelor's degree and am currently applying to grad school. I hope you are able to find what you're looking for here in the forum!
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer
Hi Kat. Thank you for the welcome. My degrees are in educational psychology and a combination English language and linguistics. I am Norwegian, but I am in Spain teaching English as a foreign language. To answer Angie's question, I nearly didn't get through university. For some obscure reason, math was a compulsory part of the course (for English and Linguistics?) and, of course, I couldn't even begin to cope with it. The college authorities were on the verge of kicking me out when the head of psychology ran a dyscalculia test (I can't remember the details of the test; we're talking a long time ago now). That was when I was diagnosed dyscalculiac. To tell the truth, it was of no relief to me. I had always battled the people (from my teachers at school to pretty much everyone else) who had labled me "stupid". But being diagnosed as having a condition I had never heard of gave me no comfort. Quite the opposite. I felt (still do in many ways) like a freak. I was convinced I was the only one with this "condition" .... interestingly, a "condition" that those who don't have it cannot understand. I have done some research and it horrifies me to see there are distinguished "experts" who seriously talk about "a cure" or "treatment" or "ways around it". I get (still) very angry with myself that I have no concept of what "everyone else" has and / or can do. Add, subtract and multiply and understand what they are doing. I see there are a number of members here, but I have no idea how many. A lot. That's the best I can do. So now I am a member, but I wonder "now what"?
Location: United States Posts: 1860 Joined: 2008-11-14
Peter,
I'm glad you were able to get diagnosed as dyscalculic and were able to finish college, even if the diagnosis itself wasn't a relief to you. I was actually quite relieved to have my diagnosis, if only because now I could finally put a finger on it and say, "Yes, this is the reason I've been struggling so much, I'm not just stupid." But I understand that everyone feels differently about being diagnosed with a learning disability.
In regards to people not having it not being able to understand it, it's true, they can't because they have this innate sense of numbers as symbols that most of us just don't have. It's a miswiring of the brain, if you will, and unless you happen to have it, you just can't understand it. It's like a dyslexic trying to explain what dyslexia is like, or a child with autism trying to describe autism. When your brain is wired in a specific, "abnormal" way that the normative population has no experience with, it's hard to make them understand that this learning disability doesn't mean we're just "dumb", it means we have a legitimate set of cognitive barriers that impact math in a specific and negative way.
It sounds like you are doing quite well for yourself in spite of dyscalculia though! Teaching English in Spain sounds like an awesome job. My friend is graduating this spring (as am I), and her degree is a B.A. in Spanish, and she's thinking about teaching Spanish for a while just for fun while she decides what she wants to do with the rest of her life. I've contemplated teaching Social Studies if grad school doesn't work out, in the state I live in you only have to have a degree in a social studies field and pass the secondary level state exam in social studies to get certified as a teacher in that subject area.
As far as "now what", a lot of us here use the forum to share stories, commiserate with each other, support each other's endeavors, give advice, review learning curricula for home schoolers, talk about how to get diagnosed for those who haven't been yet, so on and so forth. We also have random threads in the "Shoutbox" area that are not quite related to dyscalculia, but are mostly for fun. Keep exploring and see what it's all about here, and feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions!
Basically this forum is just a community of dyscalculics (or loved ones of dyscalculics) who support each other and give each other positive encouragement. I've been here for almost 4 years now and it's my favorite online community, never met such a great, positive group of people despite everything we go through!
"The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings." - Eric Hoffer
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
2/23/12
Hi Peter,
I'll add my welcome, too. You are a Norwegian but in Spain teaching English as a foreign language. That's quite a combination. I'm an American,... Texan to be more specific,... native American English speaker, but fluent in Spanish as my second language. I'm working on a BA in Spanish, with five classes to go after this semester. When I graduate about a year from now, teaching English in a foreign country would be one of my options. My University has a Linguistics Certificate comprised of five classes, but that would keep me enrolled in college for at least another semester, and my debt is mounting.
When I saw that you have a degree as an educational psychologist, I thought 'Wow! Can you help us?', because, just like you said, it seems that far too many 'experts' are still completely ignorant on diagnosing or understanding dyscalculia. Worse yet, they pass on their ignorance to others when they expound on it in their official capacity. There is however, an excellent educational psychologist Ph.D. in a city near me, in North Texas. He diagnosed me and four other dyscalculics who were in my Logic class. We took that class to substitute our College Algebra credits. We all passed the class and are on our way now to getting the degrees of our choice. I'm sending you a PM. - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on February 23 2012 11:55 PM
Hi back at you, Jus'. Thank you for your kind words. I got the PM but there was nothing on it!
I am not sure what I could do to help any other dyscaluculic mostly because I don't understand it myself. I know I can't do what pretty much any small child can do (count and add and subject and understand the answer) and I have no idea why. Oh sure, I know the technical bits and language and what you can read on any "expert analysis", but I don't understand it for me. I that makes any sense.For me, "knowing" what numbers are is kind of like a person who was born blind "knowing" what colors are. They know, but they have no concept of it.
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
2/23/12
Glad to hear back from you in nearly 'real time', Peter. To pick up your PM, you have to look over to the left on this forum. See the box with a man's head and your 'name' above it? Right underneath, it says Private Messages. Click there and your messages will open up. Let me know if you don't find it.
As an educational psychologist, are you able to give the Wechsler IQ test or the Woodcock Johnson test? Also, I would guess that your license to practice is limited to Norway. Is this correct? I think that your example of a blind person 'knowing' what colors are, but having no concept of them is excellent. I do have a concept of what numbers are, but I've seen several forum members state that they have exactly your problem. In my case, I often have to count on my fingers to feel secure that I've got the right answer. Also, I can't remember formulas, so I can't do algebra. I can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division,... but only because of doing homework far into the night, for too many years. Have you used your psychology degree? What's it like in Spain? Are you learning the language? - jus'
Edited by justfoundout on February 24 2012 12:04 AM
I see you've received warm welcomes from quite a few of our members. I feel for you not having any concept of numbers. Like Jus, I can do basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and some division, but anyting above basic math is beyond me. I cannot do a fraction to save my soul and I never made it as far as algebra.
It's great that you have two degrees though. That had to have been a great deal of hard work to get those. Be proud of those accomplishments--there are some of us who never made it through high school.
I only graduated in November of last year, 29 years too late and just days before I found out about Dyscalculia--go figure. Dyscalculia was part of the reason I dropped out of school in the first place, even when I did not yet know of its existence and its negative impact on me. With my dismal math grades, I knew I would never get into university anyway, so I figured what was the point. However, I'm very happy to have finally graduated. I am now moving forward and taking courses in things I am interested in.
As for your panic attacks, I can definitely relate to those. Panic attacks are always a frightening experience, wouldn't you agree?
Referencing your checkout comment, In order to get out of doing math at the checkout, I used my daughters as "shields". I made a game out of it to see which one of them could add the items the quickest. They competed with each other to see which one of them was closest to the dollar amount of what I had purchased before the cashier finished ringing the items though the cash register. No one ever realized that I was only doing it to hide the fact that I could never have dealt with a cashier alone. I got away with it for years.
It's great that you were diagnosed with Dyscalculia while still in school though. Many of us here are only finding out about this condition now, after being out of school for many years. I find that I've gained a sense of peace knowing that there is a reason for the way I am. It explains so much of why I act the way I do and why my life is structured the way it is. I now choose whether to tell someone I am Dyscalculic. If I'm in a situation that I know the Dyscalculia won't be understood or appreciated, I can choose to use my other coping mechanisms instead--and the truth is, I'm REALLY good at hiding it!
For you to have obtained two degrees, it would seem as though you have also developed good coping mechanisms. How did you deal with the math anxiety during exams?
Again, welcome to the forums. I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Ladyhawke
Algebra? When I learn decimals and fractions, you're welcome to try teaching me, but unless you have the patience of a saint and are very long-lived, good luck with that...
Hi Ladyhawk.
Nope, I wasn't diagnosed while still at school. I left school at the earliest possible moment with no qualifications. I worked for a year emptying trash cans, then walked out and roamed the world (always going south and east ..... Africa, the Mediteranean, the Middle East, India, Malaya, China. I realized I was pretty good at languages and decided to "show 'em all" I wasn't as dumb as they all said I was. I applied to go to London University (at that time, the Brits were paying for non-Brit students to go and study there) so I was closer to middle-aged when I was diagnosed (and about to be thrown out of the university because - of course - I couldn't do a thing with the compulsory math classes. Math, to study linguistics and educational psychology? I never did see the connection. The head of the psychology department was a true hero and raised cain to keep me there. I was finally given permission to stay. I so-know the shields thing. I used to do something similar with my daughters, but mostly I never used loose change, only paper money (I still do; a habit that drives my wife crazy!) and, of course, I couldn't count the change so had to rely on people's honesty. I often wonder how many times I got ripped off. I don't know how many discaluclics keep it quiet. I did for years. My wife (she is my second wife) had been my best friend for as long as I could remember and she always suspected, but didn't know until I confirmed it. Now she is a solid rock, although she admits she doesn't understand it. She is a wizard at math and has to do all the budgeting and stuff. I think, maybe, I am just beginning to ease away from the feeling that I am a freak. I think finding this forum is going to be real good for me.
Isn't it funny how many dyscalculics end up marrying people who are amazing at math or math related subjects? My ex-husband was (still is) a genius with computers, which of course is very math based and he was excellent at math too. I still am learning how to use a computer, but I'm much better at it than I used to be. It does help that computers are so user friendly nowadays though.
Ladyhawke
Algebra? When I learn decimals and fractions, you're welcome to try teaching me, but unless you have the patience of a saint and are very long-lived, good luck with that...
Location: Texas USA Posts: 6101 Joined: 2008-05-25
2/27/12
On the point of dyscalculics marrying someone who is good at math,... me too. My ex-husband was a pilot,... good at trig, calc, logarithms,... even taxes, tax laws,... all things math. He was Saludatorian at his small town's High School graduation. I still laugh to myself when I remember him telling me about being Saludatorian. [en.wikipedia.org/...lutatorian
QUOTE:
Salutatorian is an academic title given, in the United States and Canada, to the second highest graduate of the entire graduating class of a specific discipline.
END QUOTE.
He complained to me with rather more chagrin than was becoming to him that the girl who took Valedictorian (top honors) at his High School graduation got it by taking 'slide' courses, like Home Economics. LOL. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have found that girl so I could shake her hand. That was probably the first and last time in his entire life that my ex-husband didn't take 'top honors', 'first prize', and whatever else constitutes 'winning'. - jus'
yup, I did that - married someone who was good at math.
My husband has an E.E. <electrical engineering> background, ham radio operator <I am too but that was QUITE a feat...he's General class>. He does all the electrical, most mechanical stuff around the house, can fix cars though he doesn't have the time or equipment to do it routinely or professionally. He was one of those kids who was always asking how things worked and took apart his parents sink when he was 9.
hey again, Skibladner, I love to travel - would love to read about your travels sometime
Hi again Rottiewoman
My travels. Well, I was much the black sheep of the family. After my sister died there was nothing for me to stay home for (I was sixteen) so I took off. This was back in 1959 when it was possible to do that. I kind of shuffled around Europe for a while (I got jobs in some places) when hitched a boat to North Africa where I learned I had a bit of a gift for teaching English as a second language. From there I went across to Cyrprus (more boat-hithing) and on to Arabia, Yemen and Kuwait. I got caught in a civil war in Yemen for more than a year. After that I hit India, Malaya, Singapore and China. It was in Singapore (my wife tells me it was 1964) I met my wife. She didn't become my wife then, but we became best friends (We kind of kept meeting in various parts of the world for a couple of days here and there for the next thirty years and got married in 1997). I finally got back to Europe around 1972 and got a scholarship to the London University. Finally I had the qualifications to teach. I went back to Norway in 1981, then across to the UK in 1997 and we moved here to Spain in 2000. That's about it
Your travels ....?
Skib'
wow, thanks for sharing! I have a Tai Chi friend whose story is similar to yours and has done a lotta traveling in the East and in Africa. That's really something about how you kept meeting your future wife, interesting how things work out....what did you like/dislike about the places you went to?
one of my college roommates was from Singapore and I met her friends also from there and we would make food with ingredients her folks sent to her, and learn about each other. I was in the International dorm so I met people from countries in Africa, from Indonesia, Thailand, Bangladesh. It was a really intriguing and learning experience.
I've only traveled in Canada and the U.S. My mom was <is still but not so much> active in the public school system and local politics and she traveled for that so when I was in middle school <7th/8th grade> and in high school, I traveled with her to Texas, Arkansas, California...we traveled through Appalachia and other places. Also went with some family friends wandering quite a bit in their motor home and have traveled throughout Northern CA to see my aunt and her family. We went to Canada in Winter with the family friends and we drove...took the train through the Agawa canyon and got stuck and thought we would be stranded there. This was quite pre-911 so people had brought all types of liquids and containers with them and some of that was the drinkable kind...lost heat in all the cars, people thought they would die and got drunk and started running through the cars.
It was loooooooooooooooooooooong train trip
I feel for you not having any concept of numbers. Like Jus, I can do basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and some division, but anyting above basic math is beyond me. I cannot do a fraction to save my soul and I never made it as far as algebra.
